8 ms·

Yep I’m sure that their universities have no concept of letting in children of a major donor or political figure with influence.

strikelaserclaw 6y ago
I'm sure Donald trump and George bush got in on merit!
- TMWNN 6y ago
  Trump transferred to Wharton after two years at Fordham. Fred Trump was a NYC real estate developer with no connection to either school; successful in his world of outerborough residential developments, sure, but an utter nonentity outside it. George W. Bush was a longtime legacy at Yale, yes, but he performed about as well as Kerry did at Yale and Gore did at Harvard. With no family connections to Harvard he applied to HBS without telling his father, who had by then served as a one-term Texas congressman and UN ambassador, and was serving as the head of the Republican National Committee. To show how little "pull" the Bush name had despite all that, Bush was turned down by the University of Texas law school before getting in at HBS.
- gersh 6y ago
  Trump's niece claims he cheated on the SAT.
thaumasiotes 6y ago
Chinese universities do have this concept -- certain students are marked VIP, so that professors will know. But the concept of granting admission based on such status, as opposed to extending special treatment to an admitted student, is very much muted. There are ways of getting in to a university without passing the gaokao threshold that would ordinarily be required. But those generally involve receiving a point boost that the college has the official discretion to offer, or doing well on an alternative test -- someone scoring 303 out of 750 would obviously not pass a lower discretionary threshold either. Note that when "officials in Shandong say new processes are now in place to make sure such incidents will not happen again", they are correct -- it's already possible to look up both your gaokao score (this girl's score wasn't falsified; rather, her identity was stolen) and the 分数线 that applied to you when you applied to a school. The problem would be instantly detected[1] by anyone who felt bitter about what happened -- and this is quite likely, since you have a strong idea of what your gaokao score will be before you actually take the test. (You have to, because you apply to colleges before you get your official result.) [1] Well, detected with probably a one-year lag.
- thewarrior 6y ago
  China as a civilization takes the notion of a merit based on examinations very seriously. They pioneered this system hundreds of years before anywhere else in the world. Cheating may exist but in terms of valuing meritocracy China has it as deeply ingrained as the west.
  - east2west 6y ago
    On paper, yes, China takes official examination rather seriously. In realty, a saying in China goes: as long as there are exams, there are cheaters. An ancient Chinese source estimates that 20% to 30% participants of imperial exams are imposters. Endless examples of high ranking officials pave way for their descendants to succeed as top performers. A renown prime minister invited the chief examiner to his library, where he had removed all reading materials except a copy of an essay his son would write for the upcoming exam. The chief examiner was left waiting forever, so he was forced to read the only reading material within reach. When he later read it again as part of national exam, he recognized it immediately and made the the son of the prime minister NO. 1. This only came out because the emperor did not want PM's family become too powerful, but merely demoted the son from NO. 1 to NO. 3. Not unlike elite institutions in the West, publicly the imperial exam system was lauded but a system of "donation" co-existed to fill official posts. This is a legal way to buy one's way into officialdom. "Legacy" entry was also available, not unlike today's system in China or elsewhere. Human nature prevails everywhere.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - gowld 6y ago
    Cheating is also deeply ingrained in the culture, though. Much like it is in the US entrepreneurial culture (not just VC backed companies and fortune 500s, but mom and pop businesses). Old history is one thing, but the whole country being run as a corporation for the past 70 years is another.
- Retric 6y ago

strikelaserclaw 6y ago

I'm sure Donald trump and George bush got in on merit!

TMWNN 6y ago
Trump transferred to Wharton after two years at Fordham. Fred Trump was a NYC real estate developer with no connection to either school; successful in his world of outerborough residential developments, sure, but an utter nonentity outside it. George W. Bush was a longtime legacy at Yale, yes, but he performed about as well as Kerry did at Yale and Gore did at Harvard. With no family connections to Harvard he applied to HBS without telling his father, who had by then served as a one-term Texas congressman and UN ambassador, and was serving as the head of the Republican National Committee. To show how little "pull" the Bush name had despite all that, Bush was turned down by the University of Texas law school before getting in at HBS.
gersh 6y ago
Trump's niece claims he cheated on the SAT.

thaumasiotes 6y ago

Chinese universities do have this concept -- certain students are marked VIP, so that professors will know. But the concept of granting admission based on such status, as opposed to extending special treatment to an admitted student, is very much muted. There are ways of getting in to a university without passing the gaokao threshold that would ordinarily be required. But those generally involve receiving a point boost that the college has the official discretion to offer, or doing well on an alternative test -- someone scoring 303 out of 750 would obviously not pass a lower discretionary threshold either. Note that when "officials in Shandong say new processes are now in place to make sure such incidents will not happen again", they are correct -- it's already possible to look up both your gaokao score (this girl's score wasn't falsified; rather, her identity was stolen) and the 分数线 that applied to you when you applied to a school. The problem would be instantly detected[1] by anyone who felt bitter about what happened -- and this is quite likely, since you have a strong idea of what your gaokao score will be before you actually take the test. (You have to, because you apply to colleges before you get your official result.) [1] Well, detected with probably a one-year lag.

thewarrior 6y ago
China as a civilization takes the notion of a merit based on examinations very seriously. They pioneered this system hundreds of years before anywhere else in the world. Cheating may exist but in terms of valuing meritocracy China has it as deeply ingrained as the west.
- east2west 6y ago
  On paper, yes, China takes official examination rather seriously. In realty, a saying in China goes: as long as there are exams, there are cheaters. An ancient Chinese source estimates that 20% to 30% participants of imperial exams are imposters. Endless examples of high ranking officials pave way for their descendants to succeed as top performers. A renown prime minister invited the chief examiner to his library, where he had removed all reading materials except a copy of an essay his son would write for the upcoming exam. The chief examiner was left waiting forever, so he was forced to read the only reading material within reach. When he later read it again as part of national exam, he recognized it immediately and made the the son of the prime minister NO. 1. This only came out because the emperor did not want PM's family become too powerful, but merely demoted the son from NO. 1 to NO. 3. Not unlike elite institutions in the West, publicly the imperial exam system was lauded but a system of "donation" co-existed to fill official posts. This is a legal way to buy one's way into officialdom. "Legacy" entry was also available, not unlike today's system in China or elsewhere. Human nature prevails everywhere.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- gowld 6y ago
  Cheating is also deeply ingrained in the culture, though. Much like it is in the US entrepreneurial culture (not just VC backed companies and fortune 500s, but mom and pop businesses). Old history is one thing, but the whole country being run as a corporation for the past 70 years is another.
Retric 6y ago