7 ms·

This is enraging. Identity theft in the United States can be a headache, sure, but in most cases the financial institutions are the ones taking the brunt of the

by zozin 6y ago

This is enraging. Identity theft in the United States can be a headache, sure, but in most cases the financial institutions are the ones taking the brunt of the damage, and even that is probably covered by some sort of insurance scheme. This woman had her entire life stripped away from her, not to mention making her doubt her own abilities by implying she “failed” the exam. How do these people live with themselves, especially the daughter of the CCP official who assumed the stolen identity? I’m sure financial criminals justify their behavior by telling themselves that in the end corporations suffer the cost of the theft, but in this case a single individual was forced to bear the brunt of this fraud for the rest of her life considering how important and life altering a good exam score is in China. It boggles the mind that people can live with themselves and can carry on living with such guilt. Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t...

mc32 6y ago
They should take whatever ill gotten earnings the cheaters have accumulate and give the majority to the aggrieved. Those cheaters appear to have no conscience whatsoever about the whole affair.
johnchristopher 6y ago
> Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t... I wouldn't say it's your western sense of morality but your personal values. Many westerners sleep very well at night and yet are guilty of the same behavior.
thewarrior 6y ago
The western sense of morality didn’t stop the admissions scandals to all top western universities like Harvard Stanford and so on. Chinese universities as far as I know don’t have things like institutionalized legacy admissions. I’d like people to reconsider the view that western societies are somehow inherently purer or less corrupt. Often it takes different forms. This can be seen in the way sanctions are imposed for companies using slave labor in Xinjiang but there is not nearly as much reflection on the vast amounts of prison labor in the US mostly of people unjustly given heavy sentences. In fact the number of people in American prisons rivals the number of people in Soviet gulags. Yet there is no shortage of sanctimony or moral rectitude. Anything wrong with western society is an unfortunate flaw in an otherwise just system but anything wrong outside the west is a civilizational failing that can only be fixed by adopting some theoretical enlightenment values which the west itself struggles to practice without hypocrisy. We can criticize others and ourselves without essentializing or casting ourselves as inherently moral.
- 8ytecoder 6y ago
  The same universities that were affected by the scandal regularly give admissions for donors’ kin. It’s just that the money went to a third party instead of the college in the scandalous cases. Free market - not arguing the morality of it - allows for the person with the resources to get an edge on various things - from life saving medical treatment to life changing opportunities.
  - creato 6y ago
    > It’s just that the money went to a third party instead of the college in the scandalous cases. That's a pretty huge difference. Letting someone donate money in exchange for admission smells bad, but if the donation is larger than the cost, they made more room for others than they occupied themselves. If a third party captures the "donation", that's just a roundabout form of theft/embezzlement.
    - KSteffensen 6y ago
      Well, ok I guess you can argue that, but can we then get rid of the notion that the US is a meritocracy?
      - ss2003 6y ago
        If you aren't one those that benefit from this you already know it is not.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
        I don't know of any people who say that the US is entirely a meritocracy. I have heard the argument that success in the US is _more_ based on merit than it is in certain other places, or that basing success on merit is good and is something we should strive to do more than we currently do, but "it is possible to get ahead in ways other than merit" does not disprove either of those.
iateanapple 6y ago
> It boggles the mind that people can live with themselves and can carry on living with such guilt. Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t... The average westerner walks around in clothing made by incredibly desperate people living in poverty who work long hours in horrible conditions.
- Thorentis 6y ago
  You can't feel guilt if you don't know about something. I'd say most people don't even know where half the things they own come from.
megablast 6y ago
> This woman had her entire life stripped away from her, not to mention making her doubt her own abilities by implying she “failed” the exam. Not just hers, her entire family. They worked together to help her do her best, including her brother dropping school. How much that conversation have gone when the results came back that she failed. Unbelievable. Apparently some people have been punished, but what sort of punishment can make up for the awful position this family has been in for 15 years?
nelsondev 6y ago
Why did you feel the need to say “western sense of morality” rather than just “sense of morality”? The article describes national outrage at this story of injustice, your implication is that a larger “eastern” sense of morality has allowed this to happen, rather than the corrupt individuals named.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Thorentis 6y ago
  Have a look at statistics on corruption in non-Western countries. Then compare those to that of Western countries. Bribes, cover-ups, corruption, and so on, is rife. At least in western countries most people have the shame to try and hide it. But in many cultures, what we would consider a bribe, is simply a part of doing business.
jonathanlydall 6y ago
> and even that is probably covered by some sort of insurance scheme Also what a lot of people don't seem to think about is that said insurance scheme premiums aren't generally paid for from the company's profits, but rather from increasing customer fees enough to cover it. Fraudsters aren't actually taking money from the pockets of the company, but rather from the company's other customers.

by zozin 6y ago

mc32 6y ago

They should take whatever ill gotten earnings the cheaters have accumulate and give the majority to the aggrieved. Those cheaters appear to have no conscience whatsoever about the whole affair.

johnchristopher 6y ago

> Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t... I wouldn't say it's your western sense of morality but your personal values. Many westerners sleep very well at night and yet are guilty of the same behavior.

thewarrior 6y ago

The western sense of morality didn’t stop the admissions scandals to all top western universities like Harvard Stanford and so on. Chinese universities as far as I know don’t have things like institutionalized legacy admissions. I’d like people to reconsider the view that western societies are somehow inherently purer or less corrupt. Often it takes different forms. This can be seen in the way sanctions are imposed for companies using slave labor in Xinjiang but there is not nearly as much reflection on the vast amounts of prison labor in the US mostly of people unjustly given heavy sentences. In fact the number of people in American prisons rivals the number of people in Soviet gulags. Yet there is no shortage of sanctimony or moral rectitude. Anything wrong with western society is an unfortunate flaw in an otherwise just system but anything wrong outside the west is a civilizational failing that can only be fixed by adopting some theoretical enlightenment values which the west itself struggles to practice without hypocrisy. We can criticize others and ourselves without essentializing or casting ourselves as inherently moral.

8ytecoder 6y ago
The same universities that were affected by the scandal regularly give admissions for donors’ kin. It’s just that the money went to a third party instead of the college in the scandalous cases. Free market - not arguing the morality of it - allows for the person with the resources to get an edge on various things - from life saving medical treatment to life changing opportunities.
- creato 6y ago
  > It’s just that the money went to a third party instead of the college in the scandalous cases. That's a pretty huge difference. Letting someone donate money in exchange for admission smells bad, but if the donation is larger than the cost, they made more room for others than they occupied themselves. If a third party captures the "donation", that's just a roundabout form of theft/embezzlement.
  - KSteffensen 6y ago
    Well, ok I guess you can argue that, but can we then get rid of the notion that the US is a meritocracy?
    - ss2003 6y ago
      If you aren't one those that benefit from this you already know it is not.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - JoshuaDavid 6y ago
      I don't know of any people who say that the US is entirely a meritocracy. I have heard the argument that success in the US is _more_ based on merit than it is in certain other places, or that basing success on merit is good and is something we should strive to do more than we currently do, but "it is possible to get ahead in ways other than merit" does not disprove either of those.

iateanapple 6y ago

> It boggles the mind that people can live with themselves and can carry on living with such guilt. Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t... The average westerner walks around in clothing made by incredibly desperate people living in poverty who work long hours in horrible conditions.

Thorentis 6y ago
You can't feel guilt if you don't know about something. I'd say most people don't even know where half the things they own come from.

megablast 6y ago

> This woman had her entire life stripped away from her, not to mention making her doubt her own abilities by implying she “failed” the exam. Not just hers, her entire family. They worked together to help her do her best, including her brother dropping school. How much that conversation have gone when the results came back that she failed. Unbelievable. Apparently some people have been punished, but what sort of punishment can make up for the awful position this family has been in for 15 years?

nelsondev 6y ago

Why did you feel the need to say “western sense of morality” rather than just “sense of morality”? The article describes national outrage at this story of injustice, your implication is that a larger “eastern” sense of morality has allowed this to happen, rather than the corrupt individuals named.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Thorentis 6y ago
Have a look at statistics on corruption in non-Western countries. Then compare those to that of Western countries. Bribes, cover-ups, corruption, and so on, is rife. At least in western countries most people have the shame to try and hide it. But in many cultures, what we would consider a bribe, is simply a part of doing business.

jonathanlydall 6y ago

> and even that is probably covered by some sort of insurance scheme Also what a lot of people don't seem to think about is that said insurance scheme premiums aren't generally paid for from the company's profits, but rather from increasing customer fees enough to cover it. Fraudsters aren't actually taking money from the pockets of the company, but rather from the company's other customers.