5 ms·

Yeah I was wondering what exactly was meant by "reservation".. in my experience you can't, as an outsider (non-native), just go, and live on the reservation. So

by Vysero 6y ago

Yeah I was wondering what exactly was meant by "reservation".. in my experience you can't, as an outsider (non-native), just go, and live on the reservation. So unless it's unlike any reservations in my state then there must have been something I was missing.

pnw_hazor 6y ago
Back in the day, enrolled members of some tribes could sell land to non-members. I think most tribes prevent that now. Land sold to non-members became Fee property that can be owned by non-members or sold to non-members. Depending on the reservation, you will find plenty of non-members that own property within the reservation.
- Wohlf 6y ago
  Does this depend on the reservation? I've heard of reservations where you basically couldn't build a permanent structure or get a building loan due to how the tribal land rules work. It's kind of fascinating having these micro-nations that aren't quite nations within our borders, I should read more in to this subject.
  - pnw_hazor 6y ago
    Reservations are governed by their tribal government, often with side-agreements/compacts with local or State governments. Real property within reservation borders is either deeded land or trust land. Deeded land can be sold without restriction. Trust land cannot be sold without approval of the US Bureau of Indian Affairs and/or the tribe. Natural resources in reservations are usually managed by the tribe. Including hunting and fishing. Some let non-Indians or non-members hunt/fish some don't. Except for a few exceptions, living on Indian reservations is no different than living anywhere else. Tribe made laws/rules do not apply to non-members -- unless the State or Feds says so. These are usually hunting rules. For example, the Colville Reservation in the State of Washington restricts non-members from hunting large game (deer, black bear, etc.) even if the game is on deeded landed. They can do this because there is a state law that says the same thing. Also, generally tribes or tribal owned businesses cannot be sued in state or federal courts unless they agree to be sued (same/similar as States and the Federal government). Thus, persons have few rights when it comes to contract disputes, personal or workplace injuries, labor issues, and so on, that involve tribes or tribal owned businesses. Something to think about if one is considering employment or otherwise doing business with a tribe or tribal owned business. "Tribes possess all powers of self-government except those relinquished under treaty with the United States, those that Congress has expressly extinguished, and those that federal courts have ruled are subject to existing federal law or are inconsistent with overriding national policies." https://www.bia.gov/frequently-asked-questions https://www.bia.gov/frequently-asked-questions
- refurb 6y ago
  Up in Canada some of the reservations do 99-years leases with developers. They retain ownership, but can actually get something for it.
  - azernik 6y ago
    Interesting - that's how the Israel National Fund managed its land in the pre-state period.
    - astrange 6y ago
      It's how China works as far as I know. It's a pretty good system; it makes housing cheap (one of the worst problems in the US) and it's good for farmers because if you go bust, you can return the land to the village who owns it anyway.
  - gruez 6y ago
    What happens after 99 years? Are they expected/obligated to renew for a reasonable fee? What's preventing them from refusing to renew the leases after 99 years, and keeping the property (and whatever improvements on top) for themselves? It might not be an issue for the first or second generation of owners, but you'd expect the uncertainly to hurt the resale value of the property as the 99 years approaches.
    - alex-wallish 6y ago
      Reminds me of a certain piece of land that Britain has a 99 year lease on. Hard for them to end well without a contractual option to extend under reasonable conditions.
      - KMag 6y ago
        > Britain has a 99 year lease on If you're referring to the New Territories portion of Hong Kong, that lease was from 1898 to 1997. That lease expired almost 25 years ago.

by Vysero 6y ago

pnw_hazor 6y ago

Back in the day, enrolled members of some tribes could sell land to non-members. I think most tribes prevent that now. Land sold to non-members became Fee property that can be owned by non-members or sold to non-members. Depending on the reservation, you will find plenty of non-members that own property within the reservation.

Wohlf 6y ago
Does this depend on the reservation? I've heard of reservations where you basically couldn't build a permanent structure or get a building loan due to how the tribal land rules work. It's kind of fascinating having these micro-nations that aren't quite nations within our borders, I should read more in to this subject.
- pnw_hazor 6y ago
  Reservations are governed by their tribal government, often with side-agreements/compacts with local or State governments. Real property within reservation borders is either deeded land or trust land. Deeded land can be sold without restriction. Trust land cannot be sold without approval of the US Bureau of Indian Affairs and/or the tribe. Natural resources in reservations are usually managed by the tribe. Including hunting and fishing. Some let non-Indians or non-members hunt/fish some don't. Except for a few exceptions, living on Indian reservations is no different than living anywhere else. Tribe made laws/rules do not apply to non-members -- unless the State or Feds says so. These are usually hunting rules. For example, the Colville Reservation in the State of Washington restricts non-members from hunting large game (deer, black bear, etc.) even if the game is on deeded landed. They can do this because there is a state law that says the same thing. Also, generally tribes or tribal owned businesses cannot be sued in state or federal courts unless they agree to be sued (same/similar as States and the Federal government). Thus, persons have few rights when it comes to contract disputes, personal or workplace injuries, labor issues, and so on, that involve tribes or tribal owned businesses. Something to think about if one is considering employment or otherwise doing business with a tribe or tribal owned business. "Tribes possess all powers of self-government except those relinquished under treaty with the United States, those that Congress has expressly extinguished, and those that federal courts have ruled are subject to existing federal law or are inconsistent with overriding national policies." https://www.bia.gov/frequently-asked-questions https://www.bia.gov/frequently-asked-questions
refurb 6y ago
Up in Canada some of the reservations do 99-years leases with developers. They retain ownership, but can actually get something for it.
- azernik 6y ago
  Interesting - that's how the Israel National Fund managed its land in the pre-state period.
  - astrange 6y ago
    It's how China works as far as I know. It's a pretty good system; it makes housing cheap (one of the worst problems in the US) and it's good for farmers because if you go bust, you can return the land to the village who owns it anyway.
- gruez 6y ago
  What happens after 99 years? Are they expected/obligated to renew for a reasonable fee? What's preventing them from refusing to renew the leases after 99 years, and keeping the property (and whatever improvements on top) for themselves? It might not be an issue for the first or second generation of owners, but you'd expect the uncertainly to hurt the resale value of the property as the 99 years approaches.
  - alex-wallish 6y ago
    Reminds me of a certain piece of land that Britain has a 99 year lease on. Hard for them to end well without a contractual option to extend under reasonable conditions.
    - KMag 6y ago
      > Britain has a 99 year lease on If you're referring to the New Territories portion of Hong Kong, that lease was from 1898 to 1997. That lease expired almost 25 years ago.