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> Your extracurriculars, who you are as a person, anything on your resume is irrelevant. All that matters is your score. Sounds absolutely brutal. That said, I

> Your extracurriculars, who you are as a person, anything on your resume is irrelevant. All that matters is your score. Sounds absolutely brutal. That said, I was caught with the quoted paragraph. Why should your extracurricular hobbies or "you as a person" matter? As far as I see, all that should be considered in university admissions is indeed your test scores.

ghaff 6y ago
>Why should your extracurricular hobbies or "you as a person" matter? They certainly do at elite US schools. The logic is that there's no shortage of students who could handle the academic work but Harvard or even MIT aren't looking just to admit the students who did best on an exam. Added: The way it at least used to be done (and I assume this still applies at least somewhat) was that quantitative academic scores are used to set something of a floor but, beyond that, they were just one of the factors that went into admissions decisions. (With weights and other considerations doubtless varying by school.)
- walshemj 6y ago
  UNi's want to make sure you have the soft skills to complete the course as well as pure academics
sethhochberg 6y ago
You'll see the term "well rounded" thrown around a lot in discussions like this. The idea is that elite schools (or even just good ones) can take their pick of academic high-performers, so they seek out students who are more than just academic high performers. They become very interested in questions like "does this person have volunteer experience that might have exposed them to a worldview larger than themselves?", "do they have a sport or hobby they enjoy which might provide them a boon in mental health?", "have they done anything which would require practical application of skills or collaboration beyond raw book learning?" The same kind of thing comes up in job interviews all the time. As a hiring manager, I'm of course most interested in whether the candidate can perform the hard requirements of the job as described. But I'd also like signals about whether you're at risk for burnout, whether you might have empathy for differing points of view, or whether you can think on your feet in non-ideal scenarios or whether you'll crumble if a plan changes or a compromise must be found. People are complex, and well-roundedness is a worthwhile goal on its own for a complex world. There are relatively few scenarios outside of standardized testing where raw academic or technical ability is the exclusive measure of a person.
- distances 6y ago
  Thanks for the thoughtful reply, this makes sense to me: if you have books full of top qualifying candidates, it can be beneficial to have a secondary selection criteria. I'm not familiar with an academic system like this so I can't really comment if it's giving good outcomes vs. purely academic selection. My country is small enough to have a single top tier university and multiple second level institutions, so I'm ingrained with the idea you should choose the best academic candidates from a limited applicant pool.
- unishark 6y ago
  I think it's more about trying to identify people with self-agency and leadership qualities. Schools generally prefer to have an above-average-intelligence alum who changes the world, over a brilliant alum who retreats from it and gains their satisfaction in life from introverted pursuits like learning things. College itself is where you get a larger worldview. Requiring people have it already seems like a great way to exclude people trapped by family and financial constraints.
anonAndOn 6y ago
Because maybe you did something interesting in your young life that others aspire to achieve like: front a popular rock band[0], star in a popular television series[1] or a few movies[2][3], or even change a professional sport [4]? [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_Cuomo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_Cuomo [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Savage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Savage [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Watson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Watson [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reese_Witherspoon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reese_Witherspoon [4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods
- distances 6y ago
  I'm not sure why you linked to these people though? These achievements may be tales to recite to your grandchildren but none of this should come up in academic entrance decisions. These people have chosen a career in entertainment which is completely orthogonal to higher learning.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Many universities aren't just about academics though. They wouldn't have things like, say, theatre clubs if they were. At some level, universities are about helping to prepare young people for life and a career. Certainly a lot of what I got out of the various degrees I obtained had very little to do with specific courses I took.
    - distances 6y ago
      Yes, different clubs are common and beneficial, and there's a lot of growing taking place during your uni years. But the parent was linking to professional actors, and I fail to see any relation there. The topic wasn't about admissions to theatrical majors in art universities.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        At least a couple of them were English Lit majors. But I don't really disagree that well-known actors who attended university off and on are really the best examples. That said, you might be surprised at the number of people who even go to a school like MIT and end up in journalism or something else that isn't obviously related to what you associate the school with.
alasdair_ 6y ago
Something similar applies to the UK, at least when I went to university there. Almost everything comes down to exam results on a particular day with (essentially) four years of prep work leading up to that day. Each university publishes the grades they will accept at a minimum for each major so you essentially choose your major at 17, or really 15 as mentioned above, because you need certain subjects with an “A” result to enroll at the university. At uni itself, almost all classes are mandatory for a given major with only one or two chances to take an elective. Failing a class at any point usually means either dropping out completely or being moved to a less prestigious major (e.g. “general science” instead of a CS degree). It’s definitely stressful.
- walshemj 6y ago
  For non UK readers different uni's have different requirements Oxbridge might want AAB when a former Poly Might accepted BCC. Over the last generation there has been massive grade inflation back when I left school getting 3A's where very rare

ghaff 6y ago

>Why should your extracurricular hobbies or "you as a person" matter? They certainly do at elite US schools. The logic is that there's no shortage of students who could handle the academic work but Harvard or even MIT aren't looking just to admit the students who did best on an exam. Added: The way it at least used to be done (and I assume this still applies at least somewhat) was that quantitative academic scores are used to set something of a floor but, beyond that, they were just one of the factors that went into admissions decisions. (With weights and other considerations doubtless varying by school.)

walshemj 6y ago
UNi's want to make sure you have the soft skills to complete the course as well as pure academics

sethhochberg 6y ago

You'll see the term "well rounded" thrown around a lot in discussions like this. The idea is that elite schools (or even just good ones) can take their pick of academic high-performers, so they seek out students who are more than just academic high performers. They become very interested in questions like "does this person have volunteer experience that might have exposed them to a worldview larger than themselves?", "do they have a sport or hobby they enjoy which might provide them a boon in mental health?", "have they done anything which would require practical application of skills or collaboration beyond raw book learning?" The same kind of thing comes up in job interviews all the time. As a hiring manager, I'm of course most interested in whether the candidate can perform the hard requirements of the job as described. But I'd also like signals about whether you're at risk for burnout, whether you might have empathy for differing points of view, or whether you can think on your feet in non-ideal scenarios or whether you'll crumble if a plan changes or a compromise must be found. People are complex, and well-roundedness is a worthwhile goal on its own for a complex world. There are relatively few scenarios outside of standardized testing where raw academic or technical ability is the exclusive measure of a person.

distances 6y ago
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, this makes sense to me: if you have books full of top qualifying candidates, it can be beneficial to have a secondary selection criteria. I'm not familiar with an academic system like this so I can't really comment if it's giving good outcomes vs. purely academic selection. My country is small enough to have a single top tier university and multiple second level institutions, so I'm ingrained with the idea you should choose the best academic candidates from a limited applicant pool.
unishark 6y ago
I think it's more about trying to identify people with self-agency and leadership qualities. Schools generally prefer to have an above-average-intelligence alum who changes the world, over a brilliant alum who retreats from it and gains their satisfaction in life from introverted pursuits like learning things. College itself is where you get a larger worldview. Requiring people have it already seems like a great way to exclude people trapped by family and financial constraints.

anonAndOn 6y ago

Because maybe you did something interesting in your young life that others aspire to achieve like: front a popular rock band[0], star in a popular television series[1] or a few movies[2][3], or even change a professional sport [4]? [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_Cuomo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivers_Cuomo [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Savage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Savage [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Watson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Watson [3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reese_Witherspoon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reese_Witherspoon [4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods

distances 6y ago
I'm not sure why you linked to these people though? These achievements may be tales to recite to your grandchildren but none of this should come up in academic entrance decisions. These people have chosen a career in entertainment which is completely orthogonal to higher learning.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Many universities aren't just about academics though. They wouldn't have things like, say, theatre clubs if they were. At some level, universities are about helping to prepare young people for life and a career. Certainly a lot of what I got out of the various degrees I obtained had very little to do with specific courses I took.
  - distances 6y ago
    Yes, different clubs are common and beneficial, and there's a lot of growing taking place during your uni years. But the parent was linking to professional actors, and I fail to see any relation there. The topic wasn't about admissions to theatrical majors in art universities.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      At least a couple of them were English Lit majors. But I don't really disagree that well-known actors who attended university off and on are really the best examples. That said, you might be surprised at the number of people who even go to a school like MIT and end up in journalism or something else that isn't obviously related to what you associate the school with.

alasdair_ 6y ago

Something similar applies to the UK, at least when I went to university there. Almost everything comes down to exam results on a particular day with (essentially) four years of prep work leading up to that day. Each university publishes the grades they will accept at a minimum for each major so you essentially choose your major at 17, or really 15 as mentioned above, because you need certain subjects with an “A” result to enroll at the university. At uni itself, almost all classes are mandatory for a given major with only one or two chances to take an elective. Failing a class at any point usually means either dropping out completely or being moved to a less prestigious major (e.g. “general science” instead of a CS degree). It’s definitely stressful.

walshemj 6y ago
For non UK readers different uni's have different requirements Oxbridge might want AAB when a former Poly Might accepted BCC. Over the last generation there has been massive grade inflation back when I left school getting 3A's where very rare