7 ms·

And, either way, what are the implications to non-tribe citizens and non-tribe governments?

tiles 6y ago
The Atlantic wrote about this in 2018, it seems like the framework of inter-agency cooporation won't be much of a change for most non-Natives: behttps://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/murphy-case-supreme-court-rules-muscogee-land/576238/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/murphy-cas...
cm2187 6y ago
And how do you even define a tribe citizen? Is there like an ID card? Is it a DNA test? Does Elizabeth Warren qualify?
- Wohlf 6y ago
  Every tribe handles this themselves, it's based on ancestry. They define their own cutoff points, such as 1/16 etc.
  - roywiggins 6y ago
    Not all tribes calculate blood quantum at all.
    - protomyth 6y ago
      Which one doesn't and is it federally recognized? The feds are a bit of a pain on that issue.
      - roywiggins 6y ago
        The Cherokee Nation doesn't impose a blood quantum test, you just need to have an ancestor listed on the Dawes rolls. https://cherokeeregistry.com/blood-quantum/ https://cherokeeregistry.com/blood-quantum/
        protomyth 6y ago
        Ok, thanks. All the northern plains groups do the quantum. I suppose the Cherokee have a pretty scary history so that makes sense. The difference between the two tribes in their statement isn't because of blood, its distance to a major city.
    - xeromal 6y ago
      That's why he said the tribe decides.
      - roywiggins 6y ago
        Right, but the implication was that tribes had each decided on a minimum blood quantum, but not all of them use blood quantum at all.
- monocasa 6y ago
  The tribes have their own mechanisms for identifying citizens like any other jus sanguinis nationality. The specifics depend on the tribe in question.
  - YetAnotherNick 6y ago
    How does this work with government? Or let's go into one specific question, can I start my own tribe?
    - monocasa 6y ago
      Just like it does for any other foreign citizenship. Getting your tribe you just started recognized without any of the treaties in place is about the same level of effort as getting your new country recognized. I don't see TSA accepting Sealand passports.
      - ibejoeb 6y ago
        No bs: I've had TSA refuse to accept my US passport card for domestic travel. He claimed there is no such thing. Twenty years down the line and we need some basic training...
        monocasa 6y ago
        Oh, I don't doubt it. I've had them refuse to take my New Mexico driver's licence...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - judge2020 6y ago
      The Bureau of Indian Affairs has a process for being recognized as a tribe[0], and the criteria is at 25 CFR § 83.11 [1]. 0: https://www.bia.gov/as-ia/ofa https://www.bia.gov/as-ia/ofa 1: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/83.11 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/83.11
protomyth 6y ago
For non-natives not really. For natives, it depends on the agreements. This isn't really a traditional reservation situation, since the tribes really are not going to have the traditional governance over the land. For example, the cops are not going to get replaced by BIA or Tribal police.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  Why not? If they're on tribal land, what's to stop the tribe from governing?
  - protomyth 6y ago
    There are other places that are technically on tribal land, and that hasn't allowed the tribe to government them. The city and state is not going to cede governance on non-members to the tribe. Its going to end up being an agreement between the state and the tribe.
  - skissane 6y ago
    Tribal governments only have criminal jurisdiction over crimes committed by Native Americans (an enrolled member of the tribe, or an enrolled member of some other federally recognised tribe). If the perpetrator is not Native American, the tribal government and courts cannot deal with the case, only local/state/federal courts and authorities can. (There is an exception to this rule, created by Congress, that domestic violence crimes committed by a non-native against their Native American spouse or partner can be dealt with through the tribal legal system.) Civil legal jurisdiction over non-native individuals is somewhat broader, but still subject to various complex legal limits. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43324.pdf https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43324.pdf
    - koheripbal 6y ago
      No, the big issue is the collection of taxes.

The Atlantic wrote about this in 2018, it seems like the framework of inter-agency cooporation won't be much of a change for most non-Natives: behttps://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/murphy-case-supreme-court-rules-muscogee-land/576238/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/murphy-cas...

cm2187 6y ago

And how do you even define a tribe citizen? Is there like an ID card? Is it a DNA test? Does Elizabeth Warren qualify?

Wohlf 6y ago
Every tribe handles this themselves, it's based on ancestry. They define their own cutoff points, such as 1/16 etc.
- roywiggins 6y ago
  Not all tribes calculate blood quantum at all.
  - protomyth 6y ago
    Which one doesn't and is it federally recognized? The feds are a bit of a pain on that issue.
    - roywiggins 6y ago
      The Cherokee Nation doesn't impose a blood quantum test, you just need to have an ancestor listed on the Dawes rolls. https://cherokeeregistry.com/blood-quantum/ https://cherokeeregistry.com/blood-quantum/
      - protomyth 6y ago
        Ok, thanks. All the northern plains groups do the quantum. I suppose the Cherokee have a pretty scary history so that makes sense. The difference between the two tribes in their statement isn't because of blood, its distance to a major city.
  - xeromal 6y ago
    That's why he said the tribe decides.
    - roywiggins 6y ago
      Right, but the implication was that tribes had each decided on a minimum blood quantum, but not all of them use blood quantum at all.
monocasa 6y ago
The tribes have their own mechanisms for identifying citizens like any other jus sanguinis nationality. The specifics depend on the tribe in question.
- YetAnotherNick 6y ago
  How does this work with government? Or let's go into one specific question, can I start my own tribe?
  - monocasa 6y ago
    Just like it does for any other foreign citizenship. Getting your tribe you just started recognized without any of the treaties in place is about the same level of effort as getting your new country recognized. I don't see TSA accepting Sealand passports.
    - ibejoeb 6y ago
      No bs: I've had TSA refuse to accept my US passport card for domestic travel. He claimed there is no such thing. Twenty years down the line and we need some basic training...
      - monocasa 6y ago
        Oh, I don't doubt it. I've had them refuse to take my New Mexico driver's licence...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - judge2020 6y ago
    The Bureau of Indian Affairs has a process for being recognized as a tribe[0], and the criteria is at 25 CFR § 83.11 [1]. 0: https://www.bia.gov/as-ia/ofa https://www.bia.gov/as-ia/ofa 1: https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/83.11 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/25/83.11

protomyth 6y ago

For non-natives not really. For natives, it depends on the agreements. This isn't really a traditional reservation situation, since the tribes really are not going to have the traditional governance over the land. For example, the cops are not going to get replaced by BIA or Tribal police.

koheripbal 6y ago
Why not? If they're on tribal land, what's to stop the tribe from governing?
- protomyth 6y ago
  There are other places that are technically on tribal land, and that hasn't allowed the tribe to government them. The city and state is not going to cede governance on non-members to the tribe. Its going to end up being an agreement between the state and the tribe.
- skissane 6y ago
  Tribal governments only have criminal jurisdiction over crimes committed by Native Americans (an enrolled member of the tribe, or an enrolled member of some other federally recognised tribe). If the perpetrator is not Native American, the tribal government and courts cannot deal with the case, only local/state/federal courts and authorities can. (There is an exception to this rule, created by Congress, that domestic violence crimes committed by a non-native against their Native American spouse or partner can be dealt with through the tribal legal system.) Civil legal jurisdiction over non-native individuals is somewhat broader, but still subject to various complex legal limits. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43324.pdf https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43324.pdf
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    No, the big issue is the collection of taxes.