5 ms·

It's worrying how government spies are getting legal cover to impersonate legitimate entities. Like spoofing a phone number and faking the voice of a loved one.

It's worrying how government spies are getting legal cover to impersonate legitimate entities. Like spoofing a phone number and faking the voice of a loved one. You don't need to be able to compel speech, when you can employ doppelgangers. > There's even a promotional video of how FinFly ISP sends a fake iTunes update and infects the target system with FinSpy Does Apple not sign iTunes updates?

wyattjoh 6y ago
From the promo video of it running an ancient version of iTunes on Windows Vista and the brochures it seems they inject their malware via software updates in general, not just iTunes.
- kevingadd 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if they force the installation of a certificate root they can use to serve malicious updates (for German OS X users, at least). That's a tactic used by agencies in other countries. Apple et al could probably mitigate this with certificate pinning in their updaters but I'm not sure they can get away with that without running into trouble with other countries that expect to be able to MITM updates.
  - hobofan 6y ago
    I would be surprised. IIRC those "other countries" are countries like Iran that have also just shut off access to the internet for the country. I still think we have a few more years of internet freedom in Germany before that happens.
    - s9w 6y ago
      Internet freedom in Germany? https://stadt-nachrichten.de/fahndungen/hasskommentare-im-internet-bka-durchsucht-wohnungen-in-mehreren-bundeslaendern/ https://stadt-nachrichten.de/fahndungen/hasskommentare-im-in... https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/hass-kommentare-im-internet-polizei-rueckt-bundesweit-zu-razzien-aus-62450840.bild.html https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/hass-kommentare-... https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/gesetz-gegen-hasskriminalitaet-1722896 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/gesetz-gege... Boy China is childs play compared to us.
      - obmelvin 6y ago
        uh, if you actually read the links you posted...from the second article one of the people visited by law enforcement said "In my opinion, gasify everyone" [google translate I must admit, but there were plenty of quotes like this that I think its safe to say this is the intended tone] I don't see how there is any justifiable grounds to talk about killing people with gas in any context, particularly not in this context.
        s9w 6y ago
        That's the examples they put in press releases. Just for a sanity check on what tiny harmless things are punished by those laws: https://www.vice.com/de/article/8xe7jg/kuchen-tv-volksverhetzung-geldstrafe-rostocker-gericht https://www.vice.com/de/article/8xe7jg/kuchen-tv-volksverhet... A Youtuber made a video about an incidents between students where one made a racist joke. He [the Youtuber] said about that joke "that wasn't a bad joke" and got convicted for Volksverhetzung - one of the harshest crimes we have. If you get convicted for that as a non-VIP, your life is effectively over in Germany. That's socially worse than a rape conviction. And back to the point: whether you consider it right to put people in jail for saying mean things or not - it is absolutely not internet freedom. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
        hobofan 6y ago
        This has nothing to do with NetzDG. If he would have spewed something of that caliber openly on the street he would've had to expect the same thing (depending on where in Germany of course). That there is no "free speech" in Germany in respect to hatespeech has been the case pre-internet too. I'm not a big fan of NetzDG, but I also have to say that I expected much worse censorship-wise when it passed and I haven't heard of gross misapplications of it so far. If anything Facebook and Twitter show that you can still post a lot of hatespeech despite its existence.
        s9w 6y ago
        You can do many things: You can pass those laws, put people in jail, make up the term "hate speech" and condemn everyone who does that. But you can not say that we have internet (or any other) freedom in Germany. There is some nice english proverb about a cake and eating it too

wyattjoh 6y ago

From the promo video of it running an ancient version of iTunes on Windows Vista and the brochures it seems they inject their malware via software updates in general, not just iTunes.

kevingadd 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if they force the installation of a certificate root they can use to serve malicious updates (for German OS X users, at least). That's a tactic used by agencies in other countries. Apple et al could probably mitigate this with certificate pinning in their updaters but I'm not sure they can get away with that without running into trouble with other countries that expect to be able to MITM updates.
- hobofan 6y ago
  I would be surprised. IIRC those "other countries" are countries like Iran that have also just shut off access to the internet for the country. I still think we have a few more years of internet freedom in Germany before that happens.
  - s9w 6y ago
    Internet freedom in Germany? https://stadt-nachrichten.de/fahndungen/hasskommentare-im-internet-bka-durchsucht-wohnungen-in-mehreren-bundeslaendern/ https://stadt-nachrichten.de/fahndungen/hasskommentare-im-in... https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/hass-kommentare-im-internet-polizei-rueckt-bundesweit-zu-razzien-aus-62450840.bild.html https://www.bild.de/news/inland/news-inland/hass-kommentare-... https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/gesetz-gegen-hasskriminalitaet-1722896 https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/aktuelles/gesetz-gege... Boy China is childs play compared to us.
    - obmelvin 6y ago
      uh, if you actually read the links you posted...from the second article one of the people visited by law enforcement said "In my opinion, gasify everyone" [google translate I must admit, but there were plenty of quotes like this that I think its safe to say this is the intended tone] I don't see how there is any justifiable grounds to talk about killing people with gas in any context, particularly not in this context.
      - s9w 6y ago
        That's the examples they put in press releases. Just for a sanity check on what tiny harmless things are punished by those laws: https://www.vice.com/de/article/8xe7jg/kuchen-tv-volksverhetzung-geldstrafe-rostocker-gericht https://www.vice.com/de/article/8xe7jg/kuchen-tv-volksverhet... A Youtuber made a video about an incidents between students where one made a racist joke. He [the Youtuber] said about that joke "that wasn't a bad joke" and got convicted for Volksverhetzung - one of the harshest crimes we have. If you get convicted for that as a non-VIP, your life is effectively over in Germany. That's socially worse than a rape conviction. And back to the point: whether you consider it right to put people in jail for saying mean things or not - it is absolutely not internet freedom. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
        hobofan 6y ago
        This has nothing to do with NetzDG. If he would have spewed something of that caliber openly on the street he would've had to expect the same thing (depending on where in Germany of course). That there is no "free speech" in Germany in respect to hatespeech has been the case pre-internet too. I'm not a big fan of NetzDG, but I also have to say that I expected much worse censorship-wise when it passed and I haven't heard of gross misapplications of it so far. If anything Facebook and Twitter show that you can still post a lot of hatespeech despite its existence.
        s9w 6y ago
        You can do many things: You can pass those laws, put people in jail, make up the term "hate speech" and condemn everyone who does that. But you can not say that we have internet (or any other) freedom in Germany. There is some nice english proverb about a cake and eating it too