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One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

227 points by tartoran 6y ago

DevKoala 6y ago
This story reminds me of the stories that were common on my country of origin in South America. We had free high level education, but there was a system rigged to preserve nepotism. I was in Russia for the World Cup in 2018 and heard the same crap.
- topspin 6y ago
  The US has evolved a similar rigging for our privileged. We supply various obscure sports accolades that can be purchased for the children of wealthy families to obtain admission to our leading universities. Unfortunately our schemes have also been exposed and a number of people are being prosecuted. So for the moment one must resort to investing in rather costly facility construction or similar expansion projects while we develop low cost alternatives to replace the now compromised schemes.
  - amluto 6y ago
    I’m not sure that a fraud committed against the universities that the universities did not know about counts as a rigged system. Or are you talking about something else?
    - elliekelly 6y ago
      While I’m not so sure all of the universities were as blissfully ignorant as they claim, what does it matter? The system was still rigged in favor of wealthier applicants with or without the schools’ knowledge and awareness of the scheme.
      - unishark 6y ago
        If it was corruption because employees lied, violated their employment contracts, etc. in return for bribes, then the system is not "rigged". Important distinction, because in one case the system actually is striving to be better, even if humans break rules now and then.
      - amluto 6y ago
        Suppose you’re the president or another executive at a major university. Imagine, for the sake of argument, that you are entirely amoral. You find out that one of your employees is taking bribes, falsifying athletic recruit records, and personally pocketing the money. Do you: (a) look the other way because you like rigging the system, or (b) fire them and call the FBI. I think (b) is the clear answer. Even if you want the children of the rich and powerful in your university, you want to know who they are, you want to collect any money that comes with it into the university’s coffers, and you do not want your employees enriching themselves at your university’s expense. Add in the fact that most universities’ presidents are unlikely to be entirely amoral, and I think it’s pretty hard to conclude that this particular incident indicates corruption at the top levels. (Sure, one might argue that the fact that athletic recruiting requests are considered at all for admissions is a problem, but the case in question wasn’t really about this.)
    - topspin 6y ago
      Universities carefully not knowing about these and future fraud techniques is key to developing replacement admission purchasing schemes.
    - hansvm 6y ago
      Not the author, but it could be either. For donations 10-40x as large as those in the recent fraud I think you're referencing the Universities are absolutely fine letting students in.
  - quadrifoliate 6y ago
    It's even simpler than that, the US has a codified system of nepotism in place called legacy admissions, which has been in place for several decades [1]. > In a deposition, Rakesh Khurana, dean of the college, said a legacy preference can foster another kind of diversity: placing people with deep Harvard experience alongside those without it. They refer to nepotism as "deep Harvard experience", that's the only difference. [1] https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/663629750/legacy-admissions-offer-an-advantage-and-not-just-at-schools-like-harvard https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/663629750/legacy-admissions-o...
    - kbenson 6y ago
      I view the legacy stuff as a but more nuanced. Universities want to admit people that really want to go there, and that will increase their prestige later through some combination of espousing the benefits of that school, becoming famous, or becoming successful. It's not hard to see how the legacy systems tick a few of these boxes automatically, making those candidates seem slightly better than others (if nothing else, the candidate probably really wants this as their college over any other choices, and will likely have more pressure from self and family to complete college and do well). The problem then, as I see it, is not legacy consideration helping people get admitted, but legacy considerations overriding the other criteria. If legacy considerations where only a 15-20% in applicant suitability, I think most people wouldn't be that upset about it. When it leads to wholly and obviously unsuitable people going, that's probably when the legacy system has gone out of control.
      - quadrifoliate 6y ago
        More nuanced nepotism is...nepotism. You're basically saying that whether or not your parents went to some school should positively influence as much as one-fifth of the consideration of whether you could go to a school or not. That is, if you scored this in a rubric, some kid whose parents went to Harvard would score 20 and I would score 0. That is wrong on a fundamental level. It's a bit like anti-affirmative action. I am fine with this system as it stands. However, it is wildly inconsistent with the pearl-clutching top comment (I know, not you) spewing stuff about the "Western sense of morality".
  - DevKoala 6y ago
    IMHO the situation of the USA is worlds apart from what I experienced as a kid in South America. The systemic corruption is normalized in Latin America. I remember when my dad bought a car that looked nice and we considered trading it because transit cops would stop us every now and then to get a tip from us. If we didn't agree to tip, we could potentially be arrested and paying your way out of the commissary was more expensive. The privileged had government printed plates that stopped cops messing with the occupants of the car. I came to the USA to have the future I couldn't have back there, and I call bullshit on your comparison. I didn't go to an ivy league school, I went to a public school, and today I make hiring decisions over engineering candidates with Ivy League school backgrounds. That type of social mobility is a fantasy in South America and the other countries you are trying to compare with the USA.
    - csunbird 6y ago
      Well, there is a term called "cop magnet", used for nice cars in USA or any other country.
    - NineStarPoint 6y ago
      100% the US is better than the more corrupt countries in the world, even if it does seem we tend to have more problems than the other first world countries. But on nepotism, I wonder if it’s not just that we are somewhat more against nepotism, and more that there’s wealth of opportunity here such that parents can help their children in potentially dubious ways while still leaving plenty of positions and money to go around for everyone else. There’s always a bit of a back and forth pull between culture creating a countries conditions and conditions creating a countries culture after all.
  - jariel 6y ago
    "We supply various obscure sports accolades that can be purchased for the children of wealthy families to obtain admission to our leading universities." ? I don't really think this is the mechanism. When major donors, who are alumni and part of the institution, ask for a favour to have a slot for their kid ... to me that may seem 'unfair' but it's also above bar if the school wants to do that and I have no problem with it so long as it doesn't take up a huge share of any particular intake.
    - topspin 6y ago
      "? I don't really think this is the mechanism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_bribery_scandal#Methods_of_fraudulent_admission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_briber... Polo, sailing, rowing, football, basketball, baseball... You name it; for a few hundred thousand you can have fake sports credentials fabricated -- complete with photoshopped team memberships -- and get yourself pencil-whipped into UoT, Yale, UCLA, USD, Georgetown, etc.
notwhereyouare 6y ago
I'm curious as to how these tests compare to the US SAT. You can take the SAT multiple times and submit your best attempt. In this story, the test seems one and done. You get 1 attempt and you either get in, or you don't. Also reminds me of the story from India like 1 or 2 years ago where a test had faulty answers and people thought they didn't get into university because of that
- Falloodude 6y ago
  This test is absolutely brutal compared to the SAT. Imagine if US students were subjected to three days of testing, eight hours each day, that included all the SAT II subjects plus regular SAT subject matter. Oh, and throw in a whole section on Middle English, too.
  - airstrike 6y ago
    In Brazil, you're tested on 10+ subjects, ~half of which are open questions and the other half are multiple choice, plus an essay. Which subject goes in each of those categories depends on the major you're applying for, so you have to decide what you'll want to study in university at age ~17 (or prior to that, really, when you're 15 in High School so you can focus your studies on the harder questions). For instance, if you want to go to Med School (which is an undergrad course in Brazil), you need to know all things Biology, from Nemathelminthes to the Krebs Cycle. Conversely, if you want to go Law School (also undergrad) or major in History, you'll need to know everything that happened between Plato and Gorbachev including really in-depth stuff on Brazilian history. The problem is, all of the High School classes are the same regardless of your intended exam – you have to learn all of the above for school along with everyone else. And you get to take the same exam for each university you apply to, meaning you basically spend a year taking exams at various dates for all the good universities. Each major has X number of spots available to candidates, to the top X scores get in. Your extracurriculars, who you are as a person, anything on your resume is irrelevant. All that matters is your score. Want to switch majors? Gotta drop out, take the exam again and restart your university life. The SAT by comparison is an absolute joke of an exam
LockAndLol 6y ago
> Her case is just one of 242 student identity thefts that took place in Shandong province between 2002 and 2009, according to recent media reports. Either there haven't been many cases or not many have been revealed. But why only until 2009? > Local authorities have launched an investigation into Chen Chunxiu's case and 46 people have been punished. That's a lot of people necessary to steal an identity!
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  Perhaps they're discovered stochastically, so the number of known recent ones is much lower than the number of known unrecent ones.
leafboi 6y ago
What's nuts about this how tons of people from all levels of government/society participated in this conspiracy. It says a lot about the general attitude of Chinese people. (I'm chinese, btw)
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  I think it says a lot about human nature and concentration of power than about Chinese people in particular.
  - jpxw 6y ago
    I think it says both, frankly.
- bgee 6y ago
  This is the reverse Chauvinism that I often see online; no I don't think this says "a lot" about the general attitude of Chinese people. I'm also Chinese.
  - leafboi 6y ago
    Chauvinism has nothing to do with it. It's just raw objectivity. Pride for any culture or race is a form of bias.
    - knolax 6y ago
      Nobody is being prideful, your logic is shoddy. Your hypothesis and the null hypothesis both lead to the same observation. To disprove the null you have to actually observe non-Chinese not cheating. Given that half the comments here are people complaining about something similar happening in their own countries, the evidence points towards the null hypothesis. (I'm an albino black Jew from Mars)
    - bgee 6y ago
      Discrimination against any culture or race is also a form or bias. "Raw objectivity" would be this instance says a lot about the common nature of human beings, the consequences of lack of accountability and oversight etc. Drawing conclusion on Chinese people requires either strong empirical evidence, or prejudice.
viburnum 6y ago
The unstated assumption in this article is that only college graduates deserve to have a decent life.
- paulchap 6y ago
  How exactly do you arrive at this conclusion?
- darawk 6y ago
  It seems more like it's saying that people deserve to receive the benefits associated with the test score that they actually got.
- airstrike 6y ago
  Not sure about China, but that is pretty much the unstated assumption that defines life in other developing countries.
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  Something I've heard from Chinese people online about the difference between the US and China is that in America, you could be a plumber/auto mechanic/skilled trades and still have a middle-income lifestyle and a decent amount of societal respect. In China, working with your hands puts you on the lower rungs in society, hence everyone wants to get into college.
  - leafboi 6y ago
    The kind of cultural attitude you describe reflects the supply and demand logistics of the economic conditions that were responsible for modern China as it is today. Modern China was built off the backs of Cheap Manual laborers
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - Animats 6y ago
    That's in the past in the US. It was true until maybe 20-30 years ago. China today seems to put bright people into improving manufacturing technology. There are PhD theses from China on electrolytic capacitor free switching power supply designs for LED lightbulbs. US academia would frown on something that practical.
markus_zhang 6y ago
Back in the days when electronics records were not the norm there were a lot of these things especially in less-developed provinces. Nowadays it's better but I'd suspect there are still things similar going on. In the less developed areas of China the so called "Cheng Guan Wu Ju Tou" (The five masters of the town, usually includes the party secretary, the town mayor, vice mayors and maybe a couple of other important officials e.g. the head of the finance bureau) holds a lot of power over the general populace. Their family members also hold other important positions and they have been living in the same areas for maybe centuries. Historically the central government had to rely on these local masters but nowadays it's getting the upper hand and a lot of these things are being reported publicly. It's kind of difficult to do the same thing (as in the BBC report) nowadays as electronic records are everywhere.
- alasdair_ 6y ago
  >Back in the days when electronics records were not the norm there were a lot of these things especially in less-developed provinces. Nowadays it's better but I'd suspect there are still things similar going on. Like some Chinese criminals with money hiring body doubles to serve their prison term for them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ding_zui https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ding_zui
  - markus_zhang 6y ago
    Yeah heard that too years ago. I remembered back in maybe 5 years ago marriage information is not shared among the provinces so technically you can marry multiple times in different provinces and not got caught...
zozin 6y ago
This is enraging. Identity theft in the United States can be a headache, sure, but in most cases the financial institutions are the ones taking the brunt of the damage, and even that is probably covered by some sort of insurance scheme. This woman had her entire life stripped away from her, not to mention making her doubt her own abilities by implying she “failed” the exam. How do these people live with themselves, especially the daughter of the CCP official who assumed the stolen identity? I’m sure financial criminals justify their behavior by telling themselves that in the end corporations suffer the cost of the theft, but in this case a single individual was forced to bear the brunt of this fraud for the rest of her life considering how important and life altering a good exam score is in China. It boggles the mind that people can live with themselves and can carry on living with such guilt. Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t...
- mc32 6y ago
  They should take whatever ill gotten earnings the cheaters have accumulate and give the majority to the aggrieved. Those cheaters appear to have no conscience whatsoever about the whole affair.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  > Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t... I wouldn't say it's your western sense of morality but your personal values. Many westerners sleep very well at night and yet are guilty of the same behavior.
- thewarrior 6y ago
  The western sense of morality didn’t stop the admissions scandals to all top western universities like Harvard Stanford and so on. Chinese universities as far as I know don’t have things like institutionalized legacy admissions. I’d like people to reconsider the view that western societies are somehow inherently purer or less corrupt. Often it takes different forms. This can be seen in the way sanctions are imposed for companies using slave labor in Xinjiang but there is not nearly as much reflection on the vast amounts of prison labor in the US mostly of people unjustly given heavy sentences. In fact the number of people in American prisons rivals the number of people in Soviet gulags. Yet there is no shortage of sanctimony or moral rectitude. Anything wrong with western society is an unfortunate flaw in an otherwise just system but anything wrong outside the west is a civilizational failing that can only be fixed by adopting some theoretical enlightenment values which the west itself struggles to practice without hypocrisy. We can criticize others and ourselves without essentializing or casting ourselves as inherently moral.
ak39 6y ago
How can the system rely on “no response is construed as failed”?! Bad design right there.
- gene91 6y ago
  It's not exactly like that. For example, university official will track you down (through phone call, through help of local official or your high school official/teacher) if you didn't enroll. This is done to ensure people (especially from rural areas) don't give up their admission due to difficulties (for example, economical ones). Obviously these doesn't help when some one takes your identity and enrolls on your behalf. Even if there is rejection letter. It probably wouldn't make a difference to the subject of this article. A fake rejection can be easily fabricated (especially if the recipient doesn't know what a real one should look like.) Also, the subject knows his/her score. The university has limited discretion to deny admission of people above the score threshold. At the end, it all comes down to low social economic status and corrupted officials working against the subject.
hatmatrix 6y ago
> The Ministry of Education has also announced that any students found to be involved in identity theft will not be allowed to enrol in university. Yeah that seems like the risk for screwing someone over is not so low - same outcome as if you hadn't committed this atrocity.
- megablast 6y ago
  The ministry of education only has so much power.
dghughes 6y ago
Sometimes it's no better here in the west. I know of a situation where a Chinese student fabricated every source for a paper. Completely made up everything. The professor saw right through it immediately and failed her. But the university big wigs told the professor to give the student a passing grade. The student graduated university.
- optimiz3 6y ago
  IMO this whistle needs to be blown because as who knows how many dangerous engineers, doctors, or whatever other safety critical professions are being graduated.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
    47%.
- TwoBit 6y ago
  In the United States? Reference?
- oxAAAFFB 6y ago
  I can attest that cheating is rampant in the UC system. Especially among Asian nationals. College is mostly a joke at this point.
- dghughes 6y ago
  Not in the US. Not a science degree. It was a few years ago. Not a great situation but I can assure you no lives are at risk.
uedue828e 6y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes Honestly if you cannot see the difference between the West and the Not The West, it's because you want to believe in the big lie. If you cannot see the difference between genocide in China and systemic racism in the US, it's because you want to believe in the big lie. I dare say that the fundamental problem in Western Civilization right now are people like you, who may believe different big lies but believe in the Big Lie all the same.
- thewarrior 6y ago
  Could you elaborate what the differences are so we all can get a clearer picture ? Is your claim that western civilization and values are superior to all others ? Does China for eg kidnap people from other countries on secret flights and then water board them on an island outside of all countries laws ? Did China blanket an entire foreign country in carcinogenic chemicals that caused birth defects for generations ? Was it the non west that imposed sanctions on Iraq that by conservative estimates killed hundreds of thousands of children ? Was it the non west that was the only civilization to use nuclear weapons against a civilian population ? Or is it that anything is allowed as long as you call yourself western and liberal ?
  - yters 6y ago
    Is it in the West or Non West where these horrible trangressions are openly discussed and citizens freely elect new officials and educate themselves so such things can never happen again?
  - uedue828e 6y ago
    It's not even a matter of debate that the west is culturally superior to the rest of the world, particularly China of all places. Chinese elite send their children and capital to the West the moment they are able. Western elite sending their children to live in China is a comedy. Get real. Always with the USA is just as bad as us nonsense lol. China is an Orwellian nightmare the West merely dreams of being.
  - 6y ago
kbenson 6y ago
> Until today, the imposter's colleagues still know her as Chen Chunxiu, say media reports. Her degree has since been revoked and she has been sacked from her job. A government report says she is still under investigation. Is it nuts to anyone else that the more powerful, socially connected person stole the poorer but better scoring person's identity for not only school, but continued to be her professionally for years after? I was reading and wondering what good this did if someone else got the degree, and was flabbergasted to see that the imposter just decided to take over the identity in perpetuity. I would assume in the west that usually only happens when the imposter's original identity is problematic (a criminal, poor and trying to hob-nob with elites, etc). In this case we have the child of an obviously well connected (and I assume well-off) official willing to take over someone else's identity.
- jimmaswell 6y ago
  Well-off people sometimes turn to thrill seeking. Apparently financially stable stay-at-home housewives are a big demographic in loss prevention because they steal for fun.
  - kbenson 6y ago
    I can see that, but I also don't expect those people to take over the identity entirely. Financially stable stay-at-home housewives have a lot of things tying them to their real identity.
- 9992B80F 6y ago
  > Is it nuts to anyone else that the more powerful, socially connected person stole the poorer but better scoring person's identity for not only school, but continued to be her professionally for years after? For Chinese professionals, your school network -- the alumni and peers -- is a large influence in finding a job after graduation and helping get promoted.
justicezyx 6y ago
I think this is a good opportunity to discuss on what would be the ideal process for selecting students for higher education. China's system is probably the fairer one compared to US. I don't know the system at Europe India, or any other nations ranked high in intellectual competitiveness. Would be interested in learning the details. Additionally, conventional higher education is mostly obsolete. Technically, one absolutely can access the same quality education outside of a typical 4 year university. That is a sea-level change compared to that in 10-20 years ago. Prominent institutions today primarily serve as social selection process to find the compatible individuals and assimilate them into the elite class. My observations identify that as obvious in US. China also have similar setup in Tsinghua and Beijing university. Especially since Hu Jintao's presidency, while the majority of the standing committee of CCP Politburo are from these 2 institutions. And the culture aura attached to them is also purposefully cultivated by CCP and the government. Now, what is the proper mechanism to prevent the small fraction of elite institutions from inbreeding, and make sure a diverse and representative student body be admitted into these institutions. For example, it was a huge problem in China that the students into the better higher education institutions have <10% from non-urban areas, while the total population has 57% in non urban areas. This number used to be >20%. This type of inequality is the most problematic.
megablast 6y ago
So, how well did the imposter do at her job? Maybe these exams are not a great measure at all? And how could you possibly repay the poor woman and her family for this?
- fiblye 6y ago
  >So, how well did the imposter do at her job? You're unlikely to find any accurate measure of that, since she likely has people propping her up well into her adult life.
Thorrez 6y ago
> At China's parliament meeting last month, there were calls for college admission identity theft to be criminalised. One delegate said it was "much more harmful than [monetary] theft". It's not already criminalised? I would expect fraud to be illegal.

227 points by tartoran 6y ago

This story reminds me of the stories that were common on my country of origin in South America. We had free high level education, but there was a system rigged to preserve nepotism. I was in Russia for the World Cup in 2018 and heard the same crap.

topspin 6y ago
The US has evolved a similar rigging for our privileged. We supply various obscure sports accolades that can be purchased for the children of wealthy families to obtain admission to our leading universities. Unfortunately our schemes have also been exposed and a number of people are being prosecuted. So for the moment one must resort to investing in rather costly facility construction or similar expansion projects while we develop low cost alternatives to replace the now compromised schemes.
- amluto 6y ago
  I’m not sure that a fraud committed against the universities that the universities did not know about counts as a rigged system. Or are you talking about something else?
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    While I’m not so sure all of the universities were as blissfully ignorant as they claim, what does it matter? The system was still rigged in favor of wealthier applicants with or without the schools’ knowledge and awareness of the scheme.
    - unishark 6y ago
      If it was corruption because employees lied, violated their employment contracts, etc. in return for bribes, then the system is not "rigged". Important distinction, because in one case the system actually is striving to be better, even if humans break rules now and then.
    - amluto 6y ago
      Suppose you’re the president or another executive at a major university. Imagine, for the sake of argument, that you are entirely amoral. You find out that one of your employees is taking bribes, falsifying athletic recruit records, and personally pocketing the money. Do you: (a) look the other way because you like rigging the system, or (b) fire them and call the FBI. I think (b) is the clear answer. Even if you want the children of the rich and powerful in your university, you want to know who they are, you want to collect any money that comes with it into the university’s coffers, and you do not want your employees enriching themselves at your university’s expense. Add in the fact that most universities’ presidents are unlikely to be entirely amoral, and I think it’s pretty hard to conclude that this particular incident indicates corruption at the top levels. (Sure, one might argue that the fact that athletic recruiting requests are considered at all for admissions is a problem, but the case in question wasn’t really about this.)
  - topspin 6y ago
    Universities carefully not knowing about these and future fraud techniques is key to developing replacement admission purchasing schemes.
  - hansvm 6y ago
    Not the author, but it could be either. For donations 10-40x as large as those in the recent fraud I think you're referencing the Universities are absolutely fine letting students in.
- quadrifoliate 6y ago
  It's even simpler than that, the US has a codified system of nepotism in place called legacy admissions, which has been in place for several decades [1]. > In a deposition, Rakesh Khurana, dean of the college, said a legacy preference can foster another kind of diversity: placing people with deep Harvard experience alongside those without it. They refer to nepotism as "deep Harvard experience", that's the only difference. [1] https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/663629750/legacy-admissions-offer-an-advantage-and-not-just-at-schools-like-harvard https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/663629750/legacy-admissions-o...
  - kbenson 6y ago
    I view the legacy stuff as a but more nuanced. Universities want to admit people that really want to go there, and that will increase their prestige later through some combination of espousing the benefits of that school, becoming famous, or becoming successful. It's not hard to see how the legacy systems tick a few of these boxes automatically, making those candidates seem slightly better than others (if nothing else, the candidate probably really wants this as their college over any other choices, and will likely have more pressure from self and family to complete college and do well). The problem then, as I see it, is not legacy consideration helping people get admitted, but legacy considerations overriding the other criteria. If legacy considerations where only a 15-20% in applicant suitability, I think most people wouldn't be that upset about it. When it leads to wholly and obviously unsuitable people going, that's probably when the legacy system has gone out of control.
    - quadrifoliate 6y ago
      More nuanced nepotism is...nepotism. You're basically saying that whether or not your parents went to some school should positively influence as much as one-fifth of the consideration of whether you could go to a school or not. That is, if you scored this in a rubric, some kid whose parents went to Harvard would score 20 and I would score 0. That is wrong on a fundamental level. It's a bit like anti-affirmative action. I am fine with this system as it stands. However, it is wildly inconsistent with the pearl-clutching top comment (I know, not you) spewing stuff about the "Western sense of morality".
- DevKoala 6y ago
  IMHO the situation of the USA is worlds apart from what I experienced as a kid in South America. The systemic corruption is normalized in Latin America. I remember when my dad bought a car that looked nice and we considered trading it because transit cops would stop us every now and then to get a tip from us. If we didn't agree to tip, we could potentially be arrested and paying your way out of the commissary was more expensive. The privileged had government printed plates that stopped cops messing with the occupants of the car. I came to the USA to have the future I couldn't have back there, and I call bullshit on your comparison. I didn't go to an ivy league school, I went to a public school, and today I make hiring decisions over engineering candidates with Ivy League school backgrounds. That type of social mobility is a fantasy in South America and the other countries you are trying to compare with the USA.
  - csunbird 6y ago
    Well, there is a term called "cop magnet", used for nice cars in USA or any other country.
  - NineStarPoint 6y ago
    100% the US is better than the more corrupt countries in the world, even if it does seem we tend to have more problems than the other first world countries. But on nepotism, I wonder if it’s not just that we are somewhat more against nepotism, and more that there’s wealth of opportunity here such that parents can help their children in potentially dubious ways while still leaving plenty of positions and money to go around for everyone else. There’s always a bit of a back and forth pull between culture creating a countries conditions and conditions creating a countries culture after all.
- jariel 6y ago
  "We supply various obscure sports accolades that can be purchased for the children of wealthy families to obtain admission to our leading universities." ? I don't really think this is the mechanism. When major donors, who are alumni and part of the institution, ask for a favour to have a slot for their kid ... to me that may seem 'unfair' but it's also above bar if the school wants to do that and I have no problem with it so long as it doesn't take up a huge share of any particular intake.
  - topspin 6y ago
    "? I don't really think this is the mechanism." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_bribery_scandal#Methods_of_fraudulent_admission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_college_admissions_briber... Polo, sailing, rowing, football, basketball, baseball... You name it; for a few hundred thousand you can have fake sports credentials fabricated -- complete with photoshopped team memberships -- and get yourself pencil-whipped into UoT, Yale, UCLA, USD, Georgetown, etc.

notwhereyouare 6y ago

I'm curious as to how these tests compare to the US SAT. You can take the SAT multiple times and submit your best attempt. In this story, the test seems one and done. You get 1 attempt and you either get in, or you don't. Also reminds me of the story from India like 1 or 2 years ago where a test had faulty answers and people thought they didn't get into university because of that

Falloodude 6y ago
This test is absolutely brutal compared to the SAT. Imagine if US students were subjected to three days of testing, eight hours each day, that included all the SAT II subjects plus regular SAT subject matter. Oh, and throw in a whole section on Middle English, too.
- airstrike 6y ago
  In Brazil, you're tested on 10+ subjects, ~half of which are open questions and the other half are multiple choice, plus an essay. Which subject goes in each of those categories depends on the major you're applying for, so you have to decide what you'll want to study in university at age ~17 (or prior to that, really, when you're 15 in High School so you can focus your studies on the harder questions). For instance, if you want to go to Med School (which is an undergrad course in Brazil), you need to know all things Biology, from Nemathelminthes to the Krebs Cycle. Conversely, if you want to go Law School (also undergrad) or major in History, you'll need to know everything that happened between Plato and Gorbachev including really in-depth stuff on Brazilian history. The problem is, all of the High School classes are the same regardless of your intended exam – you have to learn all of the above for school along with everyone else. And you get to take the same exam for each university you apply to, meaning you basically spend a year taking exams at various dates for all the good universities. Each major has X number of spots available to candidates, to the top X scores get in. Your extracurriculars, who you are as a person, anything on your resume is irrelevant. All that matters is your score. Want to switch majors? Gotta drop out, take the exam again and restart your university life. The SAT by comparison is an absolute joke of an exam

LockAndLol 6y ago

> Her case is just one of 242 student identity thefts that took place in Shandong province between 2002 and 2009, according to recent media reports. Either there haven't been many cases or not many have been revealed. But why only until 2009? > Local authorities have launched an investigation into Chen Chunxiu's case and 46 people have been punished. That's a lot of people necessary to steal an identity!

wizzwizz4 6y ago
Perhaps they're discovered stochastically, so the number of known recent ones is much lower than the number of known unrecent ones.

leafboi 6y ago

What's nuts about this how tons of people from all levels of government/society participated in this conspiracy. It says a lot about the general attitude of Chinese people. (I'm chinese, btw)

forgotmypw17 6y ago
I think it says a lot about human nature and concentration of power than about Chinese people in particular.
- jpxw 6y ago
  I think it says both, frankly.
bgee 6y ago
This is the reverse Chauvinism that I often see online; no I don't think this says "a lot" about the general attitude of Chinese people. I'm also Chinese.
- leafboi 6y ago
  Chauvinism has nothing to do with it. It's just raw objectivity. Pride for any culture or race is a form of bias.
  - knolax 6y ago
    Nobody is being prideful, your logic is shoddy. Your hypothesis and the null hypothesis both lead to the same observation. To disprove the null you have to actually observe non-Chinese not cheating. Given that half the comments here are people complaining about something similar happening in their own countries, the evidence points towards the null hypothesis. (I'm an albino black Jew from Mars)
  - bgee 6y ago
    Discrimination against any culture or race is also a form or bias. "Raw objectivity" would be this instance says a lot about the common nature of human beings, the consequences of lack of accountability and oversight etc. Drawing conclusion on Chinese people requires either strong empirical evidence, or prejudice.

viburnum 6y ago

The unstated assumption in this article is that only college graduates deserve to have a decent life.

paulchap 6y ago
How exactly do you arrive at this conclusion?
darawk 6y ago
It seems more like it's saying that people deserve to receive the benefits associated with the test score that they actually got.
airstrike 6y ago
Not sure about China, but that is pretty much the unstated assumption that defines life in other developing countries.
magicsmoke 6y ago
Something I've heard from Chinese people online about the difference between the US and China is that in America, you could be a plumber/auto mechanic/skilled trades and still have a middle-income lifestyle and a decent amount of societal respect. In China, working with your hands puts you on the lower rungs in society, hence everyone wants to get into college.
- leafboi 6y ago
  The kind of cultural attitude you describe reflects the supply and demand logistics of the economic conditions that were responsible for modern China as it is today. Modern China was built off the backs of Cheap Manual laborers
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- Animats 6y ago
  That's in the past in the US. It was true until maybe 20-30 years ago. China today seems to put bright people into improving manufacturing technology. There are PhD theses from China on electrolytic capacitor free switching power supply designs for LED lightbulbs. US academia would frown on something that practical.

markus_zhang 6y ago

Back in the days when electronics records were not the norm there were a lot of these things especially in less-developed provinces. Nowadays it's better but I'd suspect there are still things similar going on. In the less developed areas of China the so called "Cheng Guan Wu Ju Tou" (The five masters of the town, usually includes the party secretary, the town mayor, vice mayors and maybe a couple of other important officials e.g. the head of the finance bureau) holds a lot of power over the general populace. Their family members also hold other important positions and they have been living in the same areas for maybe centuries. Historically the central government had to rely on these local masters but nowadays it's getting the upper hand and a lot of these things are being reported publicly. It's kind of difficult to do the same thing (as in the BBC report) nowadays as electronic records are everywhere.

alasdair_ 6y ago
>Back in the days when electronics records were not the norm there were a lot of these things especially in less-developed provinces. Nowadays it's better but I'd suspect there are still things similar going on. Like some Chinese criminals with money hiring body doubles to serve their prison term for them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ding_zui https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ding_zui
- markus_zhang 6y ago
  Yeah heard that too years ago. I remembered back in maybe 5 years ago marriage information is not shared among the provinces so technically you can marry multiple times in different provinces and not got caught...

zozin 6y ago

This is enraging. Identity theft in the United States can be a headache, sure, but in most cases the financial institutions are the ones taking the brunt of the damage, and even that is probably covered by some sort of insurance scheme. This woman had her entire life stripped away from her, not to mention making her doubt her own abilities by implying she “failed” the exam. How do these people live with themselves, especially the daughter of the CCP official who assumed the stolen identity? I’m sure financial criminals justify their behavior by telling themselves that in the end corporations suffer the cost of the theft, but in this case a single individual was forced to bear the brunt of this fraud for the rest of her life considering how important and life altering a good exam score is in China. It boggles the mind that people can live with themselves and can carry on living with such guilt. Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t...

mc32 6y ago
They should take whatever ill gotten earnings the cheaters have accumulate and give the majority to the aggrieved. Those cheaters appear to have no conscience whatsoever about the whole affair.
johnchristopher 6y ago
> Then again, maybe it’s my western sense of morality that tells me the perpetrator should feel guilt. Perhaps they don’t... I wouldn't say it's your western sense of morality but your personal values. Many westerners sleep very well at night and yet are guilty of the same behavior.
thewarrior 6y ago
The western sense of morality didn’t stop the admissions scandals to all top western universities like Harvard Stanford and so on. Chinese universities as far as I know don’t have things like institutionalized legacy admissions. I’d like people to reconsider the view that western societies are somehow inherently purer or less corrupt. Often it takes different forms. This can be seen in the way sanctions are imposed for companies using slave labor in Xinjiang but there is not nearly as much reflection on the vast amounts of prison labor in the US mostly of people unjustly given heavy sentences. In fact the number of people in American prisons rivals the number of people in Soviet gulags. Yet there is no shortage of sanctimony or moral rectitude. Anything wrong with western society is an unfortunate flaw in an otherwise just system but anything wrong outside the west is a civilizational failing that can only be fixed by adopting some theoretical enlightenment values which the west itself struggles to practice without hypocrisy. We can criticize others and ourselves without essentializing or casting ourselves as inherently moral.

ak39 6y ago

How can the system rely on “no response is construed as failed”?! Bad design right there.

gene91 6y ago
It's not exactly like that. For example, university official will track you down (through phone call, through help of local official or your high school official/teacher) if you didn't enroll. This is done to ensure people (especially from rural areas) don't give up their admission due to difficulties (for example, economical ones). Obviously these doesn't help when some one takes your identity and enrolls on your behalf. Even if there is rejection letter. It probably wouldn't make a difference to the subject of this article. A fake rejection can be easily fabricated (especially if the recipient doesn't know what a real one should look like.) Also, the subject knows his/her score. The university has limited discretion to deny admission of people above the score threshold. At the end, it all comes down to low social economic status and corrupted officials working against the subject.

hatmatrix 6y ago

> The Ministry of Education has also announced that any students found to be involved in identity theft will not be allowed to enrol in university. Yeah that seems like the risk for screwing someone over is not so low - same outcome as if you hadn't committed this atrocity.

megablast 6y ago
The ministry of education only has so much power.

dghughes 6y ago

Sometimes it's no better here in the west. I know of a situation where a Chinese student fabricated every source for a paper. Completely made up everything. The professor saw right through it immediately and failed her. But the university big wigs told the professor to give the student a passing grade. The student graduated university.

optimiz3 6y ago
IMO this whistle needs to be blown because as who knows how many dangerous engineers, doctors, or whatever other safety critical professions are being graduated.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  47%.
TwoBit 6y ago
In the United States? Reference?
oxAAAFFB 6y ago
I can attest that cheating is rampant in the UC system. Especially among Asian nationals. College is mostly a joke at this point.
dghughes 6y ago
Not in the US. Not a science degree. It was a few years ago. Not a great situation but I can assure you no lives are at risk.

uedue828e 6y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes Honestly if you cannot see the difference between the West and the Not The West, it's because you want to believe in the big lie. If you cannot see the difference between genocide in China and systemic racism in the US, it's because you want to believe in the big lie. I dare say that the fundamental problem in Western Civilization right now are people like you, who may believe different big lies but believe in the Big Lie all the same.

thewarrior 6y ago
Could you elaborate what the differences are so we all can get a clearer picture ? Is your claim that western civilization and values are superior to all others ? Does China for eg kidnap people from other countries on secret flights and then water board them on an island outside of all countries laws ? Did China blanket an entire foreign country in carcinogenic chemicals that caused birth defects for generations ? Was it the non west that imposed sanctions on Iraq that by conservative estimates killed hundreds of thousands of children ? Was it the non west that was the only civilization to use nuclear weapons against a civilian population ? Or is it that anything is allowed as long as you call yourself western and liberal ?
- yters 6y ago
  Is it in the West or Non West where these horrible trangressions are openly discussed and citizens freely elect new officials and educate themselves so such things can never happen again?
- uedue828e 6y ago
  It's not even a matter of debate that the west is culturally superior to the rest of the world, particularly China of all places. Chinese elite send their children and capital to the West the moment they are able. Western elite sending their children to live in China is a comedy. Get real. Always with the USA is just as bad as us nonsense lol. China is an Orwellian nightmare the West merely dreams of being.
- 6y ago

kbenson 6y ago

> Until today, the imposter's colleagues still know her as Chen Chunxiu, say media reports. Her degree has since been revoked and she has been sacked from her job. A government report says she is still under investigation. Is it nuts to anyone else that the more powerful, socially connected person stole the poorer but better scoring person's identity for not only school, but continued to be her professionally for years after? I was reading and wondering what good this did if someone else got the degree, and was flabbergasted to see that the imposter just decided to take over the identity in perpetuity. I would assume in the west that usually only happens when the imposter's original identity is problematic (a criminal, poor and trying to hob-nob with elites, etc). In this case we have the child of an obviously well connected (and I assume well-off) official willing to take over someone else's identity.

jimmaswell 6y ago
Well-off people sometimes turn to thrill seeking. Apparently financially stable stay-at-home housewives are a big demographic in loss prevention because they steal for fun.
- kbenson 6y ago
  I can see that, but I also don't expect those people to take over the identity entirely. Financially stable stay-at-home housewives have a lot of things tying them to their real identity.
9992B80F 6y ago
> Is it nuts to anyone else that the more powerful, socially connected person stole the poorer but better scoring person's identity for not only school, but continued to be her professionally for years after? For Chinese professionals, your school network -- the alumni and peers -- is a large influence in finding a job after graduation and helping get promoted.

justicezyx 6y ago

I think this is a good opportunity to discuss on what would be the ideal process for selecting students for higher education. China's system is probably the fairer one compared to US. I don't know the system at Europe India, or any other nations ranked high in intellectual competitiveness. Would be interested in learning the details. Additionally, conventional higher education is mostly obsolete. Technically, one absolutely can access the same quality education outside of a typical 4 year university. That is a sea-level change compared to that in 10-20 years ago. Prominent institutions today primarily serve as social selection process to find the compatible individuals and assimilate them into the elite class. My observations identify that as obvious in US. China also have similar setup in Tsinghua and Beijing university. Especially since Hu Jintao's presidency, while the majority of the standing committee of CCP Politburo are from these 2 institutions. And the culture aura attached to them is also purposefully cultivated by CCP and the government. Now, what is the proper mechanism to prevent the small fraction of elite institutions from inbreeding, and make sure a diverse and representative student body be admitted into these institutions. For example, it was a huge problem in China that the students into the better higher education institutions have <10% from non-urban areas, while the total population has 57% in non urban areas. This number used to be >20%. This type of inequality is the most problematic.

megablast 6y ago

So, how well did the imposter do at her job? Maybe these exams are not a great measure at all? And how could you possibly repay the poor woman and her family for this?

fiblye 6y ago
>So, how well did the imposter do at her job? You're unlikely to find any accurate measure of that, since she likely has people propping her up well into her adult life.

Thorrez 6y ago

> At China's parliament meeting last month, there were calls for college admission identity theft to be criminalised. One delegate said it was "much more harmful than [monetary] theft". It's not already criminalised? I would expect fraud to be illegal.