4 ms·

My issue with open borders is that everyone seems to come to the most populated places. It seems kind of insane how everyone crams into the same old cities. C

by bserge 6y ago

My issue with open borders is that everyone seems to come to the most populated places. It seems kind of insane how everyone crams into the same old cities. Companies do it because the workers are there, workers do it because the companies are there, and every city just becomes a crowded, unaffordable hellscape. Is it not possible to build new towns and expand them anymore? There's plenty of land as far as I can tell...

setgree 6y ago
What we've experienced is not open borders, at least in America it's mostly a mix of unskilled workers coming in over the Southern border and high-skilled workers coming in via visas. Naturally those recruited specifically to join companies are going to cluster where those companies are. I also think that immigrants from a generation or two back tend to be spread out much farther. There's a large Indian population in the Detroit area, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indian_Americans_in_Metro_Detroit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indian_Americans_in... Bottom line: Immigrants, like the rest of Americans, go where the jobs are, and if that gets more spread out -- as might happen as a long-term response to COVID -- then so will the distribution of new arrivals. Can't really speak to the experience elsewhere.
ucosty 6y ago
You can build new towns, but they tend to have a chicken-and-egg problem with respect to jobs. No employers will set up shop in a new town because there are no employees, people moving in get jobs in the nearest city because there are none suitable in town. These places are often called bedroom or commuter towns.
harimau777 6y ago
I think that some of the issue is that cities have more opportunities even outside of employment. Arts, dining, sporting events, museums, world class instructors in various hobbies, cultural events, etc.
gowld 6y ago
If those cities are so bad, why does almost everyone want to live there? If you don't like the cities, why not take advantage of open borders leave? Open borders seems to be the solution to your problem, not the cause.
asdff 6y ago
There is simply an advantage to being close to a network node with multiple connections that outweigh the costs. Whether you define that node in people in your field, different fields, different cultures, different ideas, availability of direct flights, trains, highways, whatever connection it may be. There is an advantage to maximizing available connections that can't be ignored. And ultimately, it may even work out in your favor to live in a high COL place. The rents are higher, but usually your pay is relative so proportionally cost of living is about the same. That means in a high cost of living state, x% of your income is more money to invest and grow, and over a career that can lead to a significant difference in wealth.
osdiab 6y ago
FWIW I moved to Tokyo in part because it’s not a hellscape, but a great place to live if you like cities (and have income). I guess if you only consider American cities then maybe you might conflate cities with hellscapes.

by bserge 6y ago

setgree 6y ago

What we've experienced is not open borders, at least in America it's mostly a mix of unskilled workers coming in over the Southern border and high-skilled workers coming in via visas. Naturally those recruited specifically to join companies are going to cluster where those companies are. I also think that immigrants from a generation or two back tend to be spread out much farther. There's a large Indian population in the Detroit area, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indian_Americans_in_Metro_Detroit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indian_Americans_in... Bottom line: Immigrants, like the rest of Americans, go where the jobs are, and if that gets more spread out -- as might happen as a long-term response to COVID -- then so will the distribution of new arrivals. Can't really speak to the experience elsewhere.

ucosty 6y ago

You can build new towns, but they tend to have a chicken-and-egg problem with respect to jobs. No employers will set up shop in a new town because there are no employees, people moving in get jobs in the nearest city because there are none suitable in town. These places are often called bedroom or commuter towns.

harimau777 6y ago

I think that some of the issue is that cities have more opportunities even outside of employment. Arts, dining, sporting events, museums, world class instructors in various hobbies, cultural events, etc.

gowld 6y ago

If those cities are so bad, why does almost everyone want to live there? If you don't like the cities, why not take advantage of open borders leave? Open borders seems to be the solution to your problem, not the cause.

asdff 6y ago

There is simply an advantage to being close to a network node with multiple connections that outweigh the costs. Whether you define that node in people in your field, different fields, different cultures, different ideas, availability of direct flights, trains, highways, whatever connection it may be. There is an advantage to maximizing available connections that can't be ignored. And ultimately, it may even work out in your favor to live in a high COL place. The rents are higher, but usually your pay is relative so proportionally cost of living is about the same. That means in a high cost of living state, x% of your income is more money to invest and grow, and over a career that can lead to a significant difference in wealth.

osdiab 6y ago

FWIW I moved to Tokyo in part because it’s not a hellscape, but a great place to live if you like cities (and have income). I guess if you only consider American cities then maybe you might conflate cities with hellscapes.