3 ms·

What are you going to do, build your own phone?

dijit 6y ago
There's a reasonable trade-off to be made, because no, I'm not going to make my own phone (or CPU, for that matter) - But I shouldn't have to. If a device conforms to standards, and is not dependent on a vendor to support it to keep it functional, then I have achieved self-reliance of some kind. Consider for a moment a PC from 20 years ago, in fact, I have one: An AMD Athlon XP 3200+ with 1G of ram. Now, this is not a "real" computer today, certainly not supported by anyone or anything- except for FOSS software which actually still runs, I can use the latest encryption schemes (and, yeah, they're slow) and interact with the world. I can even play the videos that I have on my harddisk which are no longer provided by any streaming service.
- dividedbyzero 6y ago
  The trade-off in this case is hundreds or thousands of hours of learning the ins and outs of Linux, hardware, etc., and still having to put in work to keep all of this running and secure. If all you want to do is some occasional light browsing, use that banking app safely (that won't even run on Linux), look at photos and share them with others, write the occasional letter – why go through all of this? Unless this is your job or hobby, it feels weirdly out of touch to expect everyone and their mother to do this. It would feel like a huge disservice to them if that was all that IT could offer them as a solution to their needs. Besides, is it really that desirable to keep hardware that old running for so long, outside of industry or some specific niches? It's doable, with a lot of effort and asceticism, but I'd rather have a recent device with all the convenience and horsepower and battery life and energy efficiency those have.
  - dijit 6y ago
    Sure, nobody is taking that from you. Much like stoicism doesn’t mean Christians have to die; I fundamentally believe that the time cost you ascribe to owning your own system is the same. Running an “old” computer is definitely not “learn the internal of Linux” as you seem to imply. The difference is you make changes on your terms. One need look not much further than Windows UI paradigms or the movement to touch optimised operating systems to understand that we need to incrementally learn as time passes through us. Regardless, this does nothing to speak of our movement to subscription services and “cloud”-optimised programs which have a heavy reliance on an internet connection. Computers from 20 years ago are a thing that can work because they were not built to exist in an ecosystem. You say you draw value in the ecosystem, I say that it should be a choice you can make.
    - dividedbyzero 6y ago
      > Running an “old” computer is definitely not “learn the internal of Linux” as you seem to imply. Running Linux involves learning Linux, which is really hard work unless you have the steep part of that learning curve behind you, or really enjoy this sort of thing. The vast majority of people don't enjoy this. Less-than-optimal hardware choices make running Linux another order of magnitude harder. That's takes a lot of time that could be spent with kids, friends, hobbies, work ... > I say that it should be a choice you can make. Which it is. Get a Dell or a Thinkpad with good Linux support, or pretty much any desktop PC with decent components and run Linux. Probably will be a bit rough, Linux on desktop seemingly always is, and you need to be able to do that or climb up that learning curve, but it'll work till the hardware physically gives out in a place that can't be repaired. If you do this, there is a lot more choice than in all closed ecosystems combined. However, the vast majority of people apparently opt for closed or semi-closed ecosystems that give them a device that works and the apps and services they want, with as little hassle as possible. I'm like that with a lot of things, too; that Macbook just works and Spotify is fantastic. Trading lower costs and a very specific kind of (for most, relatively abstract) freedom for convenience and much lower time invest doesn't strike me as less valid a choice than yours. There are only so many hours in a day and years in a life.
branon 6y ago
No, but friendly devices like Pinephone exist :)

There's a reasonable trade-off to be made, because no, I'm not going to make my own phone (or CPU, for that matter) - But I shouldn't have to. If a device conforms to standards, and is not dependent on a vendor to support it to keep it functional, then I have achieved self-reliance of some kind. Consider for a moment a PC from 20 years ago, in fact, I have one: An AMD Athlon XP 3200+ with 1G of ram. Now, this is not a "real" computer today, certainly not supported by anyone or anything- except for FOSS software which actually still runs, I can use the latest encryption schemes (and, yeah, they're slow) and interact with the world. I can even play the videos that I have on my harddisk which are no longer provided by any streaming service.

dividedbyzero 6y ago
The trade-off in this case is hundreds or thousands of hours of learning the ins and outs of Linux, hardware, etc., and still having to put in work to keep all of this running and secure. If all you want to do is some occasional light browsing, use that banking app safely (that won't even run on Linux), look at photos and share them with others, write the occasional letter – why go through all of this? Unless this is your job or hobby, it feels weirdly out of touch to expect everyone and their mother to do this. It would feel like a huge disservice to them if that was all that IT could offer them as a solution to their needs. Besides, is it really that desirable to keep hardware that old running for so long, outside of industry or some specific niches? It's doable, with a lot of effort and asceticism, but I'd rather have a recent device with all the convenience and horsepower and battery life and energy efficiency those have.
- dijit 6y ago
  Sure, nobody is taking that from you. Much like stoicism doesn’t mean Christians have to die; I fundamentally believe that the time cost you ascribe to owning your own system is the same. Running an “old” computer is definitely not “learn the internal of Linux” as you seem to imply. The difference is you make changes on your terms. One need look not much further than Windows UI paradigms or the movement to touch optimised operating systems to understand that we need to incrementally learn as time passes through us. Regardless, this does nothing to speak of our movement to subscription services and “cloud”-optimised programs which have a heavy reliance on an internet connection. Computers from 20 years ago are a thing that can work because they were not built to exist in an ecosystem. You say you draw value in the ecosystem, I say that it should be a choice you can make.
  - dividedbyzero 6y ago
    > Running an “old” computer is definitely not “learn the internal of Linux” as you seem to imply. Running Linux involves learning Linux, which is really hard work unless you have the steep part of that learning curve behind you, or really enjoy this sort of thing. The vast majority of people don't enjoy this. Less-than-optimal hardware choices make running Linux another order of magnitude harder. That's takes a lot of time that could be spent with kids, friends, hobbies, work ... > I say that it should be a choice you can make. Which it is. Get a Dell or a Thinkpad with good Linux support, or pretty much any desktop PC with decent components and run Linux. Probably will be a bit rough, Linux on desktop seemingly always is, and you need to be able to do that or climb up that learning curve, but it'll work till the hardware physically gives out in a place that can't be repaired. If you do this, there is a lot more choice than in all closed ecosystems combined. However, the vast majority of people apparently opt for closed or semi-closed ecosystems that give them a device that works and the apps and services they want, with as little hassle as possible. I'm like that with a lot of things, too; that Macbook just works and Spotify is fantastic. Trading lower costs and a very specific kind of (for most, relatively abstract) freedom for convenience and much lower time invest doesn't strike me as less valid a choice than yours. There are only so many hours in a day and years in a life.

branon 6y ago

No, but friendly devices like Pinephone exist :)