3 ms·

Retconning 'prison bitch' as 'gay husband' is beyond stupid and crass. Does this sort of thing really help anyone?

thepangolino 6y ago
I guess it helps advertisers get clicks.
zozbot234 6y ago
Yup, it's especially funny because the present-day, deeply egalitarian idea of homosexuality (with its attendant developments, including gay marriage) is a very modern (late 19th c. at the earliest) development. Back in, say, Ancient Greece and Rome, "prison bitch" was all you got - both homosexual sex and, to a large extent, heterosexual were essentially predatory in nature. Rape culture was very real. (You can see the consequences of this e.g. in the Christian new testament, where the homosexual practices of the time are said to be an abomination but this also extends to heterosexual practices.) (OP's article does attempt to reframe the typical practices of the time and make them "fit" the modern egalitarian view, but note how even in their own account it's always the older, more dominant member of the pairing who is said to "love" and "care" for his younger and more submissive partner. This is clearly the same sort of highly skewed arrangement that is well known from ancient Mediterranean cultures.)
- pjc50 6y ago
  "Consent culture", along with contraception and condoms, strikes me as one of the real enablers of the 20th century sexual revolution.
- hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
  If we're questioning the egalitarian quality of pre-20th century relationŝips, one could also say that "heterosexuality" between equals was also not the norm. Only modern _homosexuality,_ though, is burdened with the requirement to prove that its historical antecedents were somehow more egalitarian than the norm for its time.
  - zozbot234 6y ago
    > one could also say that "heterosexuality" between equals was also not the norm. Yes, that's pretty much what I said. Hence also the historical focus on socially sanctioning heterosexual sex via marriage, and on the family's role in carefully vetting prospective marriage partners. It clearly didn't go as far as modern "consent culture" towards solving the issue, but it was a rough attempt.
    - hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
      When you say "towards solving the issue", what issue do you reckon needed (or needs) solving?
- netcan 6y ago
  Often, these discussions go awry is when we overestimate and build upon solid seeming concepts that are actually squishy. Marriage and prison bitch have very different connotations to us. To an alien...these are all in the sphere of coupling relationships. Ultimately, a 4th century peasant marriage, 19th century marriage, a 1950s American marriage and a modern, suburban gay marriage are all different from eachother... there's a common thread though. The semantics tend to become the discussion.

I guess it helps advertisers get clicks.

Yup, it's especially funny because the present-day, deeply egalitarian idea of homosexuality (with its attendant developments, including gay marriage) is a very modern (late 19th c. at the earliest) development. Back in, say, Ancient Greece and Rome, "prison bitch" was all you got - both homosexual sex and, to a large extent, heterosexual were essentially predatory in nature. Rape culture was very real. (You can see the consequences of this e.g. in the Christian new testament, where the homosexual practices of the time are said to be an abomination but this also extends to heterosexual practices.) (OP's article does attempt to reframe the typical practices of the time and make them "fit" the modern egalitarian view, but note how even in their own account it's always the older, more dominant member of the pairing who is said to "love" and "care" for his younger and more submissive partner. This is clearly the same sort of highly skewed arrangement that is well known from ancient Mediterranean cultures.)

pjc50 6y ago
"Consent culture", along with contraception and condoms, strikes me as one of the real enablers of the 20th century sexual revolution.
hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
If we're questioning the egalitarian quality of pre-20th century relationŝips, one could also say that "heterosexuality" between equals was also not the norm. Only modern _homosexuality,_ though, is burdened with the requirement to prove that its historical antecedents were somehow more egalitarian than the norm for its time.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  > one could also say that "heterosexuality" between equals was also not the norm. Yes, that's pretty much what I said. Hence also the historical focus on socially sanctioning heterosexual sex via marriage, and on the family's role in carefully vetting prospective marriage partners. It clearly didn't go as far as modern "consent culture" towards solving the issue, but it was a rough attempt.
  - hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
    When you say "towards solving the issue", what issue do you reckon needed (or needs) solving?
netcan 6y ago
Often, these discussions go awry is when we overestimate and build upon solid seeming concepts that are actually squishy. Marriage and prison bitch have very different connotations to us. To an alien...these are all in the sphere of coupling relationships. Ultimately, a 4th century peasant marriage, 19th century marriage, a 1950s American marriage and a modern, suburban gay marriage are all different from eachother... there's a common thread though. The semantics tend to become the discussion.