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Reddit has been (rightly) attempting to drive away it's far-right troll userbase, so whenever a potential viable alternative to Reddit pops up, it's them that g

Reddit has been (rightly) attempting to drive away it's far-right troll userbase, so whenever a potential viable alternative to Reddit pops up, it's them that go there first, resulting in no-one else wanting to go there, which results in the inevitable failure of that alternative, or at least it becoming an entrenched hangout for bigots. It's happened more than once already.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago
I remember voat. Originally it was looking like it would become the new reddit. The UI was good, the site was stable, but then it become totally flooded with racists so it never took off.
- dt3ft 6y ago
  I started building https://20-things.com https://20-things.com with a rather big barrier to entry (requires SMS verification) in order to discourage racists from signing up, which is what happens when anonymous registration is allowed, as seen on voat example. So far a few hundred people signed up, but I am the only one actively posting content, I use it like my personal bookmarking service. Without SMS verification, registration would be anonymous which enables racism, and in order to go this route, I'd have to have an army of moderators.
  - petargyurov 6y ago
    SMS verification is good but I doubt it works on a larger scale. I've long thought about a social network where each user is required to verify their identity. That comes with its own problems of course, especially in the current times of data protection, misuse of data and a lack of trust for these kinds of things. I'm sure it can be done properly, but who's to say what "properly" means.
    - fabianlindfors 6y ago
      I think I have seen a startup doing exactly this here in Sweden, can't remember their name though. We have a well-established e-ID which makes the verification part dead simple. I'm working on bringing e-IDs to more people which would make ideas like your much easier to implement. If you want to make your idea reality I'd love to collaborate!
      - petargyurov 6y ago
        > If you want to make your idea reality I'd love to collaborate! One day, maybe... I am focused on my business at the moment (check my profile here on HN). A social network is certainly not a small undertaking but I can see it starting off as a side project and building a small community. I can forsee lots of costs involved however. I will keep your offer in mind!
        fabianlindfors 6y ago
        Totally understand! In my mind, it doesn't end at social networks. There are so many applications which become better with trust, like dating apps, product reviews, and online marketplaces.
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  There's now another one called ruqqus. I'm not sure whether to call it a reddit-clone or a voat-clone. Even the front-page is full of right-wing trolling, whether or not that was the intended purpose of the site.
zbowling 6y ago
imgflip has already become the latest hangout for the expelled right wing contingent. https://imgflip.com/m/politics https://imgflip.com/m/politics
honksillet 6y ago
Hate to break it to you but theDonald.win, where T_D went after reddit imposed its "quarantine", just steamed through the top 1200 spot in the USA according to the Alexa rankings.
- bb611 6y ago
  Isn't that a good thing for alternative social media sites? A centralized site run by that crowd is probably the optional solution for everyone.
  - catalogia 6y ago
    Maybe so, but that's just one of dozens of controversial communities reddit has banned. So I think reddit still has a 'defensive moat' of disgruntled offensive ex-redditors looking for a new reddit-clone.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    I don't think it's optimal. It already was an echo chamber back on Reddit, but a centralized site is probably even worse in that regard.
    - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
      It depends; on the one side, the people 'inside' will probably become more radicalized, but on the other they no longer have a platform, new members of the 'club' are harder to find, and they no longer cause stress / strain on (in this case) Reddit. Reddit must've had hundreds of complaints daily about something posted in T_D. I know I complained once because they adjusted their algorithms so that T_D wouldn't be as prominent in the top lists anymore, but given that I'm one of those idle scrollers on r/all, eventually I went down the list so far that EVERY post was a T_D post.
      - pavel_lishin 6y ago
        > but on the other they no longer have a platform But they do have a platform.
em-bee 6y ago
so how can anyone build an alternative without falling into this trap?
- speedgoose 6y ago
  Most alternatives are all for free speech and consequently become platforms for hate speech. Perhaps the key is the moderation model.
- thearchitect1 6y ago
  The key is to have less politics and more alternate topics such as hobbies, videos etc.
- NewEntryHN 6y ago
  Communicate the fact that it's going to be well moderated and isn't a bastion of free speech.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- stockavuryah 6y ago
  Not one alternative, all the alternatives, decentralize everything.
  - em-bee 6y ago
    isn't that what mastodon is doing?
- krapp 6y ago
  You can't. You can either have free speech and laissez-faire moderation and let the extremists take over, or you can have moderation aggressive enough to drive those elements elsewhere, and have limited (not free) speech. There is no third option, because people can't be trusted to simply be civil. Nazis or Fascists, pick your poison.

Polylactic_acid 6y ago

I remember voat. Originally it was looking like it would become the new reddit. The UI was good, the site was stable, but then it become totally flooded with racists so it never took off.

dt3ft 6y ago
I started building https://20-things.com https://20-things.com with a rather big barrier to entry (requires SMS verification) in order to discourage racists from signing up, which is what happens when anonymous registration is allowed, as seen on voat example. So far a few hundred people signed up, but I am the only one actively posting content, I use it like my personal bookmarking service. Without SMS verification, registration would be anonymous which enables racism, and in order to go this route, I'd have to have an army of moderators.
- petargyurov 6y ago
  SMS verification is good but I doubt it works on a larger scale. I've long thought about a social network where each user is required to verify their identity. That comes with its own problems of course, especially in the current times of data protection, misuse of data and a lack of trust for these kinds of things. I'm sure it can be done properly, but who's to say what "properly" means.
  - fabianlindfors 6y ago
    I think I have seen a startup doing exactly this here in Sweden, can't remember their name though. We have a well-established e-ID which makes the verification part dead simple. I'm working on bringing e-IDs to more people which would make ideas like your much easier to implement. If you want to make your idea reality I'd love to collaborate!
    - petargyurov 6y ago
      > If you want to make your idea reality I'd love to collaborate! One day, maybe... I am focused on my business at the moment (check my profile here on HN). A social network is certainly not a small undertaking but I can see it starting off as a side project and building a small community. I can forsee lots of costs involved however. I will keep your offer in mind!
      - fabianlindfors 6y ago
        Totally understand! In my mind, it doesn't end at social networks. There are so many applications which become better with trust, like dating apps, product reviews, and online marketplaces.
MaxBarraclough 6y ago
There's now another one called ruqqus. I'm not sure whether to call it a reddit-clone or a voat-clone. Even the front-page is full of right-wing trolling, whether or not that was the intended purpose of the site.

zbowling 6y ago

imgflip has already become the latest hangout for the expelled right wing contingent. https://imgflip.com/m/politics https://imgflip.com/m/politics

honksillet 6y ago

Hate to break it to you but theDonald.win, where T_D went after reddit imposed its "quarantine", just steamed through the top 1200 spot in the USA according to the Alexa rankings.

bb611 6y ago
Isn't that a good thing for alternative social media sites? A centralized site run by that crowd is probably the optional solution for everyone.
- catalogia 6y ago
  Maybe so, but that's just one of dozens of controversial communities reddit has banned. So I think reddit still has a 'defensive moat' of disgruntled offensive ex-redditors looking for a new reddit-clone.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  I don't think it's optimal. It already was an echo chamber back on Reddit, but a centralized site is probably even worse in that regard.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    It depends; on the one side, the people 'inside' will probably become more radicalized, but on the other they no longer have a platform, new members of the 'club' are harder to find, and they no longer cause stress / strain on (in this case) Reddit. Reddit must've had hundreds of complaints daily about something posted in T_D. I know I complained once because they adjusted their algorithms so that T_D wouldn't be as prominent in the top lists anymore, but given that I'm one of those idle scrollers on r/all, eventually I went down the list so far that EVERY post was a T_D post.
    - pavel_lishin 6y ago
      > but on the other they no longer have a platform But they do have a platform.

em-bee 6y ago

so how can anyone build an alternative without falling into this trap?

speedgoose 6y ago
Most alternatives are all for free speech and consequently become platforms for hate speech. Perhaps the key is the moderation model.
thearchitect1 6y ago
The key is to have less politics and more alternate topics such as hobbies, videos etc.
NewEntryHN 6y ago
Communicate the fact that it's going to be well moderated and isn't a bastion of free speech.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
stockavuryah 6y ago
Not one alternative, all the alternatives, decentralize everything.
- em-bee 6y ago
  isn't that what mastodon is doing?
krapp 6y ago
You can't. You can either have free speech and laissez-faire moderation and let the extremists take over, or you can have moderation aggressive enough to drive those elements elsewhere, and have limited (not free) speech. There is no third option, because people can't be trusted to simply be civil. Nazis or Fascists, pick your poison.