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People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out

People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a spreadsheet. Lay people who are not into being fit are the audience for all these ridiculous things that don't help them get or stay fit because what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps. You have to know how to prioritize, fitness has to be in the top of that priority list, you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine. You have to know how to manage your time, how to get enough sleep, how to eat, how to move your body - like how to hip hinge for example - what activity you enjoy, how to achieve goals. A fitness app isn't going to do any of these things for you. These things are ridiculous. As a powerlifter I'm trying to imagine what intelligent doo-dad they'd try stick with us, and the most interesting things I've seen are the bar velocity tools, but unless you're strong enough to compete, I doubt you give a shit. I don't think barbell sports are a billion dollar investment market though for a gadget.

hn_check 6y ago
"People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness." Fitness apps are very common among "people who are into fitness". In lifting, running, cycling, and other realms. Your No True Scotsman claim doesn't mesh with reality. I lift three times a week, and have for years. I use and very much enjoy Fitbod. It tracks my activities in a way that would be a giant pain otherwise...why would I use a notebook and a spreadsheet when there are tools perfectly suited?
- 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
  Because pen and paper works and you don’t have to be paranoid about where your phone is in relation to your plates. Never know when someone will fail a lift.
snazz 6y ago
I don’t disagree with the premise of your comment, but some active people do find technology useful. Lots of my runner friends find their Apple Watches extremely useful. As a cyclist, Strava provides motivation (primarily peer pressure through the social network aspect) and useful statistics. It sounds like you’re mostly thinking of strength training, which is one of the areas of fitness that is less well-served by fancy technology.
fny 6y ago
You fall under one particular customer segment I'd call "experts." These types of products are not intended for you. Also, I highly doubt powerlifting will ever be digitized given the liabilities involved. Likely some connected Bowflex will appear, but that's not the type of thing experts like you would ever buy.
rconti 6y ago
Your argument that the target market is not "people who are into fitness" is the entire point. It's a much larger market than people who are into fitness. > Lay people who are not into being fit are the audience for all these ridiculous things that don't help them get or stay fit because what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps. [citation needed] The argument basically seems to boil down to "fat lazy slobs should just give up". Everyone's "journey" (sorry, I hate the term, too) starts somewhere. This kind of thing is exactly what some people will need. I have no idea if $500M will turn out to be a good investment, nor what % of Mirror buyers will get into fitness long-term. But the reality is that some/many of them will, and it's pretty silly to imply that someone using a gadget to get into fitness cannot or will not learn to prioritize fitness, learn skills, how to manage their time, all these things you tout.
- 2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
  The vast majority of people just want to go to the gym or a class and get sweaty for an hour or so. With out having to think about what they are actually doing. That’s what most of these apps and devices are aimed for. You may or may not get for this way depending on your definition of fitness. So I agree with you, this is a far larger market than people who think about correct movement and actual gains.
- cultus 6y ago
  I'm a former competitive cyclist, but even back then I was against any rigorous quantification of my training. Exercise should be fun. That's what really gets you to stick with it. If Strava makes it more fun for some people, then that's absolutely fantastic. However, I see a lot of people (new cyclists in particular)that want to micromanage all of their exercise, and it seems like it causes them anxiety. I lift weights, and as someone who is not bulking (nor have I for a few years), I don't keep track of my lifting. I just lift in the volume and weight that feels good to me. Exercise science is kind of a wasteland anyway, so detailed data on one's workouts isn't even particularly useful information.
  - MinusGix 6y ago
    How do you get exercise to be fun? I occasionally try doing more exercise than normal, but it eventually breaks down as I find it tedious and boring. The only exercising-esque activity I've really enjoyed was swordfighting (literally just with wooden swords with friends), but that's not really something to practice on my own, nor is there that many who I can do it with. I should just stick with some form of exercise, but when I feel like I'm wasting my time (being bored), that really kills my motivation.
Sodman 6y ago
I agree that these are targeted more at lay people than power lifters, but I disagree with some of your other points. > you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine Unless an app creates the routine for you. > You have to know how to [...] move your body Unless you have an app to show you how. These apps also set goals and record progress for people who don't know what to aim for. Between that, the gamification, and competing with others, this can be enough of a motivation for folks that wouldn't otherwise be part of the "make it your top-priority" and spreadsheet-tracking crowd.
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Jestar342 6y ago
This is more for the Peleton crowd, I think. Those who are not wanting to go to a gym but want the effects of being in a class, but I'm not certain. Otherwise I wholly agree with you (am also an [amateur] powerlifter) - the one thing these apps undeniably cheat their users of is owning their own fitness. They prey on the type of person who does not know how, or even doesn't want, to take ownership of their fitness and instead signing them up for a generic routine that might get some results, but ultimately the gratification that they are doing _something_ at least. Though I am quite biased and a snob about them, I will happily admit.
- kevml 6y ago
  What is wrong with the results of Peloton? Or any of the other video work out routines? There’s a large a market that understands the need to exercise, but hasn’t been able to mentally get into it. I’ve never had exercise equipment at home because I thought I couldn’t fit it into my apartment. I spent a fortune on a gym membership I never used and my gym was in the same building I worked in! I could never find the time to go to a gym. Now, I’ve got a home gym, and I bought a subscription to Les Mills. It’s been great and I look forward to getting sweaty for an hour. It’s not perfect and I’m certainly not getting into perfect physique but I’m definitely getting great cardio, becoming more flexible, and gaining strength. Don’t think I am being taken advantage of or being denied “ownership of my fitness” when in fact it’s the absolute opposite.
  - Jestar342 6y ago
    > What is wrong with the results of Peloton? Or any of the other video work out routines? Nothing, if that's what you want. What I'm referring to is this idea that subscribing to one of these services and getting whatever results you get from it is "it". I would be much better impressed by any service that educates the subscriber about even the basics of nutrition and physiology instead of just pushing their LCD programs like they are the silver bullet. FWIW I don't look down on Peloton, I think it's actually a great service. Lots of people working out in a class-like virtual environment is great as I am confident a lot of those who partake wouldn't go to the gym to do the same otherwise, for whatever reason(s).
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datguacdoh 6y ago
When the pandemic hit and we all went into lockdown, my wife and I with our newborn and 2 year old went looking for a way to keep somewhat of a workout routine in our schedule. We found a gym that was posting home-modified workouts on SugarWOD and they've been perfect for us. We want to maintain fitness - I couldn't care less if my deadlift or clean or snatch got stronger - my definition of fitness isn't my PR's. I want to be able to do things like play sports with my kids when they grow up, hike with them, run around with them for hours without feeling like dying. That's the goal and these types of apps are perfect for that. I don't have to care about what to do today, if I'm overloading a specific muscle group, if I'm taking it easy on myself because I'm a bit lazy that day. I open the app, I see what's in store and I go. We've actually talked about not going back to our regular gym when things open up again because we've enjoyed this so much and haven't lost a beat in terms of fitness. I have friends whose definition of fitness has a lot more to do with physique - and for them they absolutely would not get what they want from our routine. They need very specific programming (diet, exercise, and rest) to hit their very specific goals.
verst 6y ago
> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a spreadsheet. I'm a marathoner (running 40-50 miles most weeks) and have a Strava subscription. I also have an Aaptiv subscription which I enjoy for core workouts and other ways to cross-train. My Garmin triathlon watch records data into the Garmin app where I also engage in challenges with friends and activity data is forwarded to Strava (and Aaptiv via Garmin -> Apple Health). The gamification and content in both apps cause me to train more and harder. Strava in particular makes running social for me when I can't run with others. I wouldn't buy Mirror personally, but I have very seriously been contemplating Peloton.
joshgel 6y ago
I played sports in college and have been a pretty self-motivated exerciser in the 10+ years since. But, I must admit that peloton is pretty motivational. We got a cycle right before the pandemic, mostly because we have a newborn and it's hard to find time to make it to the gym. I was surprised, but I think I work out harder with it than when I am just out for a jog myself. Sure, when I really feel like pushing myself on a run, I can work out just as hard. But there are also lots of times when I'm just forcing myself to go out and exercise and I don't put everything I have into it. With the peloton cycle, I feel like I get into the workout much quicker and rarely just go through the motions.
- afterwalk 6y ago
  From what I hear, a high quality cycle can be bought on the order of $1-1.5k I wonder if it would be possible to emulate the peloton experience with a software only startup that targets commodity bikes and rowers?
  - jerlam 6y ago
    The Peloton experience, as I understand it, is based more around the live-streamed workout experience, the accompanying music, and the integrated refined hardware. People on normal bikes can buy a 'smart trainer' ($400-1200) and already have many options of connected apps (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/03/cycling-indoor-trainer-app-guide.html https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/03/cycling-indoor-trainer-a...), the most popular of which is Zwift.
  - matthewowen 6y ago
    Peloton has a software only offering that you can use with your bike on a bike trainer. It's less feature rich than competitors like zwift,trainerroad, and sufferfest (no power meter support) but my wife likes it because of the spin class style format that those products lack
    - blaser-waffle 6y ago
      You can find pretty good spin-class videos on youtube. Like, dozens of em. I'm sure the peleton workouts are better and more varied, but you can probably find something that works without paying a premium price.
phaus 6y ago
I don't really see the appeal of a $1500 ipad/mirror but I get a lot of value out of my fitbit. Tracking food, sleep, and my weight has been really helpful. It lets me know what I need to adjust to meet my goals. Tracking my walking/running data is pretty useful as a motivator to improve. Its easier and more convenient to track all of these things either automatically using sensors or manually on my phone in an app than it is to use a spreadsheet. I don't really like using apps to track my strength training though.
jniedrauer 6y ago
> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. What do you make of Strava? Tons of elite runners and cyclists use it. I use it, Garmin Connect, Elevate, and various others to track my fitness. I would say that the vast majority of people who are "into fitness" use apps to track their fitness.
- graeme 6y ago
  Running and cycling are very different than weight lifting. Easy to calculate automatically with an app. That said, I think the market of weight lifters with good technique who use barbells is much smaller than the market of casual weight lifters/gym goers.
  - jniedrauer 6y ago
    I use Garmin to track strength training too. I find that peak heart rate during heavy lifts is a good indicator of cumulative central nervous system stress from running.
dboshardy 6y ago
They don't _need_ apps but clearly an overwhelming majority _like_ or _want_ apps to track. Not everyone is into carrying a notebook and pen with them to the gym and already have their phone.
superhuzza 6y ago
>People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a spreadsheet. Doesn't align with my experiences, at all. Every single runner and cyclist I know (including myself) uses apps to track their activities. Notebooks are simply not as convenient as automatic GPS tracking. I understand why notebooks are sufficient for lifting, which has long rest periods to record relatively simple measurements. But it's a different story for lots of other sports. Strava alone has something like 50 million users, and for good reason - it's an incredibly effective training tool.
- mbreese 6y ago
  I end up using Strava to track individual runs, but then still store longer term records in an Excel spreadsheet. Before the spreadsheet, it was on paper. This helps me track some of my trends better (miles per run, miles run in a pair of shoes, etc). Things that are possible with Strava, but ridiculously easy with a spreadsheet. For me, Strava is more about tracking my individual runs and keeping up to date with what friends are doing. Monitoring any actual training, for me at least, is easier with paper and a spreadsheet.
  - njovin 6y ago
    I’m on the complete other end. I don’t pay much attention to my individual performances but I love being able to see how I trend over time on specific segments or training intensity and that’s the main reason I pay for Strava.
  - rconti 6y ago
    I track my shoes with Strava, I'd definitely never do that on paper. In fact, just last week I retired 3 pair of shoes that had all gone over 500 miles. (whether this is a good number is another story, but I had to pick something).
    - mbreese 6y ago
      I only wear one set of shoes at a time, so tracking their distance is quite a bit easier. If I needed to track multiple sets at a time, I’d be lost without something like Strava. My last 3 pairs (same brand/style) I’ve retired around the 380-400 mile mark, which is about as far as I trust the treads.
youngNed 6y ago
> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness Show me a runner without a Garmin (or similar)
tzs 6y ago
My Apple Watch has definitely increased my fitness. I've had it 428 days...and I've got a 428 day move streak going, and 60 consecutive perfect weeks for stand, move, exercise, and all rings. This is definitely more activity than I was doing before the watch. According to the Health app on my iPhone, my average daily walking distance is 2-3x post-watch than pre-watch. Turns out I'm as susceptible to psychologically manipulative gamification as any other random person.
elliottkember 6y ago
> People who are into fitness > As a powerlifter This is what's called "projecting". Other people who are "into fitness" are not into it the same way you are.
switch11 6y ago
You are, sort of, missing the point These Apps and Services are for 1) People who want 'to feel good' i.e. they did something for their fitness 2) People who want to transition from knowing nothing about fitness, to knowing something 3) People who want to develop a habit of fitness. Keeping tracking of things is critical What gets Measured Gets Managed (peter drucker, google it) 4) people who are absolutely clueless and want to know where to start a good example is the Water app. IT was super simple. 10 glasses of water. As you drink a glass you tap it and you can keep track To someone who is very fit, it makes zero sense. They already have a routine and a habit On the other hand, for the 98% of the population who don't have a very healthy and very disciplined routine, that is an app that can be super valuable * Please keep in mind that IN ANY ACTIVITY the vast majority of people have ZERO interest in being Arnold Schwarzenegger of Fitness or Warren Buffet of investing they just want to go from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence to even a tiny bit of competence EVEN if it is just a feeling
gnopgnip 6y ago
85% of being fit is your diet. There are a lot of people that can have their diet swayed because of technology.
paxys 6y ago
People don't "need" apps for anything. They use whatever is helpful to them.
- t0ughcritic 6y ago
  People definitely don’t need an app to meditate but people think it makes their life easier and pay for it. You won’t see Buddhist monks in the foothills of Nepal using headspace but the average person with limited time will.
flattone 6y ago
Same. Somehow (crazy i know) my body actually tells me if i feel like i had a good exercise, regardless of steps, apps, gps map overlay, Social sharing integration. If you need 'features' to enable your life, lulz.
princevegeta89 6y ago
Sorry I don't agree completely with your statement here. I use a Garmin watch for track my running/biking, and it does play a role in inspiring me to lift my ass up. The metrics are what I find to be fun, and they even help me compete with myself to do better every single time. I agree that Mirror is an overpriced commodity that 90% of us don't need, but there are always people going after the 'fancy' stuff.
sfblah 6y ago
100% agree thank you for saying this.
austhrow743 6y ago
You’re right that they don’t need them, plenty still want them though. For many people screwing about with gear and new toys is a big part of having a hobby. This includes both people that are good at their hobbies and those that aren’t.
tootie 6y ago
If you've ever attended a mainstream gym you'd know how many people show up just for aerobics classes or personal trainers who put them through a load of low-intensity movements. They're paying $50-200/mo.
chrisweekly 6y ago
Strong disagreement here, from someone who used a simple app called "100 pushups" to incorporate stretching and pushups into my morning routine. I've got a personal record of 129 consecutive pushups, and have over 56k pushups tracked since I started using the app. My wife's started complimenting me on my physique. Also, several of my friends use Strava or similar apps to great effect wrt their biking and running. It's nearly always a mistake to assume your personal experiences or perspective are universal.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > a simple app called "100 pushups" Got a link? There are a bunch on the App Store with that in the title.
  - chrisweekly 6y ago
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/100-pushups-be-stronger/id979339825 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/100-pushups-be-stronger/id9793... The app per se is a little rough around the edges, but imho that's moot; I've followed its guidance for stretching and reps and rest days, and it was gratifying (and motivating) to track my progress to 100 consecutive pushups and beyond. Enjoy! :)
- Gigablah 6y ago
  Apologies for the unsolicited advice, and you probably know this already, but you could incorporate some exercises that work out your back muscles to balance it out.
  - chrisweekly 6y ago
    Thanks! No apology warranted! And yes, well aware -- and I always have at least a full day between the 100p sets (as advised by the 100p app I mentioned). The off days, I often do abs / crunches.
kevc 6y ago
I think you are right - but only for a specific crowd. The hardcore iron types tend to be serious about fitness, but define fitness narrowly. They fetishize the weightlifting basics, and dislike any and all gadgets and tech in their routines. Always in fitness you have a group of customers who are not into fitness and making an aspirational purchase. However, there is also a group (probably larger than the hardcore weightlifter types) of fitness-oriented people who aren’t trying to lift heavy weights and they use apps, workout classes, and HIIT training with light weights. Peleton/Mirror suit this group well. Both of my parents - who are older but fit - do almost 100% of their workouts on the Peleton now. My roommate, a former D1 athlete runs and does fitness classes via app. In both cases they were doing this before COVID, and quarantine is obviously causing many others to embrace this as well.
tylerscott 6y ago
Totally agree. I’ve been trying to create a simple way to digitize my training log and rather than an app, I came up with a simple markup language. I would love any feedback you may have on it: https://www.traindown.com https://www.traindown.com
matthewowen 6y ago
This might be true for lifting but it's much less true for running and not at all true for cycling: there are approximately zero serious cyclists who don't track rides using technology.
beardedwizard 6y ago
Could not disagree more. I train 10+ hours a week cycling and race competitively. apps and data are absolutely critical. I even get value out of apps with instructor led classes when my motivation is low.
JeremyNT 6y ago
When I was lifting, I used my phone instead of a notebook. Of course, I used a simple note taking app, not anything designed or built to purpose. It's amusing to see this wave of products; does anybody remember Wii Fit, the balance board, Playstation Move, etc? There's long been a market for gizmos and gadgets that are intended to make physical activity more "fun" via gamification. There's always going to be a market for the latest fitness fad, and the trick for any company wanting to make a buck here is to keep evolving their "gimmick" to recapture imagination every so often (rather than selling a single trick which people will get tired of eventually). I think these toys may actually help people become more fit, FWIW. Some people only need a little nudge to get moving, and a gizmo might just do the trick. Anecdotally, I feel like the most successful gizmos in this class are the bicycling video games, which may have to do with the fact that the core elements of the sport are easier to simulate well than most other activities.

hn_check 6y ago

"People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness." Fitness apps are very common among "people who are into fitness". In lifting, running, cycling, and other realms. Your No True Scotsman claim doesn't mesh with reality. I lift three times a week, and have for years. I use and very much enjoy Fitbod. It tracks my activities in a way that would be a giant pain otherwise...why would I use a notebook and a spreadsheet when there are tools perfectly suited?

2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
Because pen and paper works and you don’t have to be paranoid about where your phone is in relation to your plates. Never know when someone will fail a lift.

snazz 6y ago

I don’t disagree with the premise of your comment, but some active people do find technology useful. Lots of my runner friends find their Apple Watches extremely useful. As a cyclist, Strava provides motivation (primarily peer pressure through the social network aspect) and useful statistics. It sounds like you’re mostly thinking of strength training, which is one of the areas of fitness that is less well-served by fancy technology.

fny 6y ago

You fall under one particular customer segment I'd call "experts." These types of products are not intended for you. Also, I highly doubt powerlifting will ever be digitized given the liabilities involved. Likely some connected Bowflex will appear, but that's not the type of thing experts like you would ever buy.

rconti 6y ago

Your argument that the target market is not "people who are into fitness" is the entire point. It's a much larger market than people who are into fitness. > Lay people who are not into being fit are the audience for all these ridiculous things that don't help them get or stay fit because what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps. [citation needed] The argument basically seems to boil down to "fat lazy slobs should just give up". Everyone's "journey" (sorry, I hate the term, too) starts somewhere. This kind of thing is exactly what some people will need. I have no idea if $500M will turn out to be a good investment, nor what % of Mirror buyers will get into fitness long-term. But the reality is that some/many of them will, and it's pretty silly to imply that someone using a gadget to get into fitness cannot or will not learn to prioritize fitness, learn skills, how to manage their time, all these things you tout.

2muchcoffeeman 6y ago
The vast majority of people just want to go to the gym or a class and get sweaty for an hour or so. With out having to think about what they are actually doing. That’s what most of these apps and devices are aimed for. You may or may not get for this way depending on your definition of fitness. So I agree with you, this is a far larger market than people who think about correct movement and actual gains.
cultus 6y ago
I'm a former competitive cyclist, but even back then I was against any rigorous quantification of my training. Exercise should be fun. That's what really gets you to stick with it. If Strava makes it more fun for some people, then that's absolutely fantastic. However, I see a lot of people (new cyclists in particular)that want to micromanage all of their exercise, and it seems like it causes them anxiety. I lift weights, and as someone who is not bulking (nor have I for a few years), I don't keep track of my lifting. I just lift in the volume and weight that feels good to me. Exercise science is kind of a wasteland anyway, so detailed data on one's workouts isn't even particularly useful information.
- MinusGix 6y ago
  How do you get exercise to be fun? I occasionally try doing more exercise than normal, but it eventually breaks down as I find it tedious and boring. The only exercising-esque activity I've really enjoyed was swordfighting (literally just with wooden swords with friends), but that's not really something to practice on my own, nor is there that many who I can do it with. I should just stick with some form of exercise, but when I feel like I'm wasting my time (being bored), that really kills my motivation.

Sodman 6y ago

I agree that these are targeted more at lay people than power lifters, but I disagree with some of your other points. > you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine Unless an app creates the routine for you. > You have to know how to [...] move your body Unless you have an app to show you how. These apps also set goals and record progress for people who don't know what to aim for. Between that, the gamification, and competing with others, this can be enough of a motivation for folks that wouldn't otherwise be part of the "make it your top-priority" and spreadsheet-tracking crowd.

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Jestar342 6y ago

This is more for the Peleton crowd, I think. Those who are not wanting to go to a gym but want the effects of being in a class, but I'm not certain. Otherwise I wholly agree with you (am also an [amateur] powerlifter) - the one thing these apps undeniably cheat their users of is owning their own fitness. They prey on the type of person who does not know how, or even doesn't want, to take ownership of their fitness and instead signing them up for a generic routine that might get some results, but ultimately the gratification that they are doing _something_ at least. Though I am quite biased and a snob about them, I will happily admit.

kevml 6y ago
What is wrong with the results of Peloton? Or any of the other video work out routines? There’s a large a market that understands the need to exercise, but hasn’t been able to mentally get into it. I’ve never had exercise equipment at home because I thought I couldn’t fit it into my apartment. I spent a fortune on a gym membership I never used and my gym was in the same building I worked in! I could never find the time to go to a gym. Now, I’ve got a home gym, and I bought a subscription to Les Mills. It’s been great and I look forward to getting sweaty for an hour. It’s not perfect and I’m certainly not getting into perfect physique but I’m definitely getting great cardio, becoming more flexible, and gaining strength. Don’t think I am being taken advantage of or being denied “ownership of my fitness” when in fact it’s the absolute opposite.
- Jestar342 6y ago
  > What is wrong with the results of Peloton? Or any of the other video work out routines? Nothing, if that's what you want. What I'm referring to is this idea that subscribing to one of these services and getting whatever results you get from it is "it". I would be much better impressed by any service that educates the subscriber about even the basics of nutrition and physiology instead of just pushing their LCD programs like they are the silver bullet. FWIW I don't look down on Peloton, I think it's actually a great service. Lots of people working out in a class-like virtual environment is great as I am confident a lot of those who partake wouldn't go to the gym to do the same otherwise, for whatever reason(s).

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datguacdoh 6y ago

When the pandemic hit and we all went into lockdown, my wife and I with our newborn and 2 year old went looking for a way to keep somewhat of a workout routine in our schedule. We found a gym that was posting home-modified workouts on SugarWOD and they've been perfect for us. We want to maintain fitness - I couldn't care less if my deadlift or clean or snatch got stronger - my definition of fitness isn't my PR's. I want to be able to do things like play sports with my kids when they grow up, hike with them, run around with them for hours without feeling like dying. That's the goal and these types of apps are perfect for that. I don't have to care about what to do today, if I'm overloading a specific muscle group, if I'm taking it easy on myself because I'm a bit lazy that day. I open the app, I see what's in store and I go. We've actually talked about not going back to our regular gym when things open up again because we've enjoyed this so much and haven't lost a beat in terms of fitness. I have friends whose definition of fitness has a lot more to do with physique - and for them they absolutely would not get what they want from our routine. They need very specific programming (diet, exercise, and rest) to hit their very specific goals.

verst 6y ago

> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a spreadsheet. I'm a marathoner (running 40-50 miles most weeks) and have a Strava subscription. I also have an Aaptiv subscription which I enjoy for core workouts and other ways to cross-train. My Garmin triathlon watch records data into the Garmin app where I also engage in challenges with friends and activity data is forwarded to Strava (and Aaptiv via Garmin -> Apple Health). The gamification and content in both apps cause me to train more and harder. Strava in particular makes running social for me when I can't run with others. I wouldn't buy Mirror personally, but I have very seriously been contemplating Peloton.

joshgel 6y ago

I played sports in college and have been a pretty self-motivated exerciser in the 10+ years since. But, I must admit that peloton is pretty motivational. We got a cycle right before the pandemic, mostly because we have a newborn and it's hard to find time to make it to the gym. I was surprised, but I think I work out harder with it than when I am just out for a jog myself. Sure, when I really feel like pushing myself on a run, I can work out just as hard. But there are also lots of times when I'm just forcing myself to go out and exercise and I don't put everything I have into it. With the peloton cycle, I feel like I get into the workout much quicker and rarely just go through the motions.

afterwalk 6y ago
From what I hear, a high quality cycle can be bought on the order of $1-1.5k I wonder if it would be possible to emulate the peloton experience with a software only startup that targets commodity bikes and rowers?
- jerlam 6y ago
  The Peloton experience, as I understand it, is based more around the live-streamed workout experience, the accompanying music, and the integrated refined hardware. People on normal bikes can buy a 'smart trainer' ($400-1200) and already have many options of connected apps (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/03/cycling-indoor-trainer-app-guide.html https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/03/cycling-indoor-trainer-a...), the most popular of which is Zwift.
- matthewowen 6y ago
  Peloton has a software only offering that you can use with your bike on a bike trainer. It's less feature rich than competitors like zwift,trainerroad, and sufferfest (no power meter support) but my wife likes it because of the spin class style format that those products lack
  - blaser-waffle 6y ago
    You can find pretty good spin-class videos on youtube. Like, dozens of em. I'm sure the peleton workouts are better and more varied, but you can probably find something that works without paying a premium price.

phaus 6y ago

I don't really see the appeal of a $1500 ipad/mirror but I get a lot of value out of my fitbit. Tracking food, sleep, and my weight has been really helpful. It lets me know what I need to adjust to meet my goals. Tracking my walking/running data is pretty useful as a motivator to improve. Its easier and more convenient to track all of these things either automatically using sensors or manually on my phone in an app than it is to use a spreadsheet. I don't really like using apps to track my strength training though.

jniedrauer 6y ago

> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. What do you make of Strava? Tons of elite runners and cyclists use it. I use it, Garmin Connect, Elevate, and various others to track my fitness. I would say that the vast majority of people who are "into fitness" use apps to track their fitness.

graeme 6y ago
Running and cycling are very different than weight lifting. Easy to calculate automatically with an app. That said, I think the market of weight lifters with good technique who use barbells is much smaller than the market of casual weight lifters/gym goers.
- jniedrauer 6y ago
  I use Garmin to track strength training too. I find that peak heart rate during heavy lifts is a good indicator of cumulative central nervous system stress from running.

dboshardy 6y ago

They don't _need_ apps but clearly an overwhelming majority _like_ or _want_ apps to track. Not everyone is into carrying a notebook and pen with them to the gym and already have their phone.

superhuzza 6y ago

>People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a spreadsheet. Doesn't align with my experiences, at all. Every single runner and cyclist I know (including myself) uses apps to track their activities. Notebooks are simply not as convenient as automatic GPS tracking. I understand why notebooks are sufficient for lifting, which has long rest periods to record relatively simple measurements. But it's a different story for lots of other sports. Strava alone has something like 50 million users, and for good reason - it's an incredibly effective training tool.

mbreese 6y ago
I end up using Strava to track individual runs, but then still store longer term records in an Excel spreadsheet. Before the spreadsheet, it was on paper. This helps me track some of my trends better (miles per run, miles run in a pair of shoes, etc). Things that are possible with Strava, but ridiculously easy with a spreadsheet. For me, Strava is more about tracking my individual runs and keeping up to date with what friends are doing. Monitoring any actual training, for me at least, is easier with paper and a spreadsheet.
- njovin 6y ago
  I’m on the complete other end. I don’t pay much attention to my individual performances but I love being able to see how I trend over time on specific segments or training intensity and that’s the main reason I pay for Strava.
- rconti 6y ago
  I track my shoes with Strava, I'd definitely never do that on paper. In fact, just last week I retired 3 pair of shoes that had all gone over 500 miles. (whether this is a good number is another story, but I had to pick something).
  - mbreese 6y ago
    I only wear one set of shoes at a time, so tracking their distance is quite a bit easier. If I needed to track multiple sets at a time, I’d be lost without something like Strava. My last 3 pairs (same brand/style) I’ve retired around the 380-400 mile mark, which is about as far as I trust the treads.

youngNed 6y ago

> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness Show me a runner without a Garmin (or similar)

tzs 6y ago

My Apple Watch has definitely increased my fitness. I've had it 428 days...and I've got a 428 day move streak going, and 60 consecutive perfect weeks for stand, move, exercise, and all rings. This is definitely more activity than I was doing before the watch. According to the Health app on my iPhone, my average daily walking distance is 2-3x post-watch than pre-watch. Turns out I'm as susceptible to psychologically manipulative gamification as any other random person.

elliottkember 6y ago

> People who are into fitness > As a powerlifter This is what's called "projecting". Other people who are "into fitness" are not into it the same way you are.

switch11 6y ago

You are, sort of, missing the point These Apps and Services are for 1) People who want 'to feel good' i.e. they did something for their fitness 2) People who want to transition from knowing nothing about fitness, to knowing something 3) People who want to develop a habit of fitness. Keeping tracking of things is critical What gets Measured Gets Managed (peter drucker, google it) 4) people who are absolutely clueless and want to know where to start a good example is the Water app. IT was super simple. 10 glasses of water. As you drink a glass you tap it and you can keep track To someone who is very fit, it makes zero sense. They already have a routine and a habit On the other hand, for the 98% of the population who don't have a very healthy and very disciplined routine, that is an app that can be super valuable * Please keep in mind that IN ANY ACTIVITY the vast majority of people have ZERO interest in being Arnold Schwarzenegger of Fitness or Warren Buffet of investing they just want to go from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence to even a tiny bit of competence EVEN if it is just a feeling

gnopgnip 6y ago

85% of being fit is your diet. There are a lot of people that can have their diet swayed because of technology.

paxys 6y ago

People don't "need" apps for anything. They use whatever is helpful to them.

t0ughcritic 6y ago
People definitely don’t need an app to meditate but people think it makes their life easier and pay for it. You won’t see Buddhist monks in the foothills of Nepal using headspace but the average person with limited time will.

flattone 6y ago

Same. Somehow (crazy i know) my body actually tells me if i feel like i had a good exercise, regardless of steps, apps, gps map overlay, Social sharing integration. If you need 'features' to enable your life, lulz.

princevegeta89 6y ago

Sorry I don't agree completely with your statement here. I use a Garmin watch for track my running/biking, and it does play a role in inspiring me to lift my ass up. The metrics are what I find to be fun, and they even help me compete with myself to do better every single time. I agree that Mirror is an overpriced commodity that 90% of us don't need, but there are always people going after the 'fancy' stuff.

sfblah 6y ago

100% agree thank you for saying this.

austhrow743 6y ago

You’re right that they don’t need them, plenty still want them though. For many people screwing about with gear and new toys is a big part of having a hobby. This includes both people that are good at their hobbies and those that aren’t.

tootie 6y ago

If you've ever attended a mainstream gym you'd know how many people show up just for aerobics classes or personal trainers who put them through a load of low-intensity movements. They're paying $50-200/mo.

chrisweekly 6y ago

Strong disagreement here, from someone who used a simple app called "100 pushups" to incorporate stretching and pushups into my morning routine. I've got a personal record of 129 consecutive pushups, and have over 56k pushups tracked since I started using the app. My wife's started complimenting me on my physique. Also, several of my friends use Strava or similar apps to great effect wrt their biking and running. It's nearly always a mistake to assume your personal experiences or perspective are universal.

ceejayoz 6y ago
> a simple app called "100 pushups" Got a link? There are a bunch on the App Store with that in the title.
- chrisweekly 6y ago
  https://apps.apple.com/us/app/100-pushups-be-stronger/id979339825 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/100-pushups-be-stronger/id9793... The app per se is a little rough around the edges, but imho that's moot; I've followed its guidance for stretching and reps and rest days, and it was gratifying (and motivating) to track my progress to 100 consecutive pushups and beyond. Enjoy! :)
Gigablah 6y ago
Apologies for the unsolicited advice, and you probably know this already, but you could incorporate some exercises that work out your back muscles to balance it out.
- chrisweekly 6y ago
  Thanks! No apology warranted! And yes, well aware -- and I always have at least a full day between the 100p sets (as advised by the 100p app I mentioned). The off days, I often do abs / crunches.

kevc 6y ago

I think you are right - but only for a specific crowd. The hardcore iron types tend to be serious about fitness, but define fitness narrowly. They fetishize the weightlifting basics, and dislike any and all gadgets and tech in their routines. Always in fitness you have a group of customers who are not into fitness and making an aspirational purchase. However, there is also a group (probably larger than the hardcore weightlifter types) of fitness-oriented people who aren’t trying to lift heavy weights and they use apps, workout classes, and HIIT training with light weights. Peleton/Mirror suit this group well. Both of my parents - who are older but fit - do almost 100% of their workouts on the Peleton now. My roommate, a former D1 athlete runs and does fitness classes via app. In both cases they were doing this before COVID, and quarantine is obviously causing many others to embrace this as well.

tylerscott 6y ago

Totally agree. I’ve been trying to create a simple way to digitize my training log and rather than an app, I came up with a simple markup language. I would love any feedback you may have on it: https://www.traindown.com https://www.traindown.com

matthewowen 6y ago

This might be true for lifting but it's much less true for running and not at all true for cycling: there are approximately zero serious cyclists who don't track rides using technology.

beardedwizard 6y ago

Could not disagree more. I train 10+ hours a week cycling and race competitively. apps and data are absolutely critical. I even get value out of apps with instructor led classes when my motivation is low.

JeremyNT 6y ago

When I was lifting, I used my phone instead of a notebook. Of course, I used a simple note taking app, not anything designed or built to purpose. It's amusing to see this wave of products; does anybody remember Wii Fit, the balance board, Playstation Move, etc? There's long been a market for gizmos and gadgets that are intended to make physical activity more "fun" via gamification. There's always going to be a market for the latest fitness fad, and the trick for any company wanting to make a buck here is to keep evolving their "gimmick" to recapture imagination every so often (rather than selling a single trick which people will get tired of eventually). I think these toys may actually help people become more fit, FWIW. Some people only need a little nudge to get moving, and a gizmo might just do the trick. Anecdotally, I feel like the most successful gizmos in this class are the bicycling video games, which may have to do with the fact that the core elements of the sport are easier to simulate well than most other activities.