6 ms·

Part of the answer I think is that we often underestimate the level of sophistication of people who lived a very long time ago. Polynesians were expert navigato

by svara 6y ago

Part of the answer I think is that we often underestimate the level of sophistication of people who lived a very long time ago. Polynesians were expert navigators, they had a lot of knowledge of things like wind patterns, currents, birds, the positions of the sun and stars... and knew how to use those to orient themselves at sea. Long voyages were probably dangerous, but they may well have had the means to turn back and return home in case they didn't find land. This article is really interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation Maybe discovering far away lands was to them meaningful for exactly the same reasons that it was later for the European explorers who rediscovered their islands...

feedbackposter 6y ago
Except unlike european “explorers” they didnt murder locals en masse.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Grakel 6y ago
  You don't have any evidence for that. All of human history is consistently filled with violence, every single day, and it still is. It's easy to criticize the successful, but each of us is the result of a global legacy of competitive murder, no matter your race.
  - radford-neal 6y ago
    Indeed. The history of the Chatham islands is enough to dispell any notion that polynesians are somehow incapable of mass murder and enslavement. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands This history also illustrates that peacefulness is also within the capacity of any people.
    - Grakel 6y ago
      Wow, interesting. We should all feel very lucky that we live in a time where we don't even have to kill our own food, much less each other. And we're only like half way to real peace.
  - totetsu 6y ago
    Some Polynesian Body armor was pretty bad ass https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-oceania/oceania-peoples-and-places/micronesia/a/kiribati-armor https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-oceania/oceania-p...
    - markdown 6y ago
      That is Micronesian, not Polynesian. It seems to be very common amongst Americans to think that all Pacific Islanders are Polynesian. Probably because of Hawaii.
- AbrahamParangi 6y ago
  This is a racist attitude.
mc32 6y ago
Though rogue waves are infrequent I wonder if their vessels were able to navigate them or do those vessels have the same issue as a small fishing boat does?
markdown 6y ago
> Part of the answer I think is that we often underestimate the level of sophistication of people who lived a very long time ago. I couldn't agree more. > Tupaia was born at Ha'amanino Harbour on Ra'iatea around 1725 and became a leading ariori priest for the Taputapuatea marae. Tupaia was trained in the fare-'ai-ra'a-'upu, or schools of learning, about the origin of the cosmos, genealogies, the calendar, proverbs and histories. He was also taught how to be a star navigator. His memorized knowledge included island lists, including their size, reef and harbor locations, whether they were inhabited, and if so, the name of the chief and any food produced there. More importantly, his memory would include the bearing of each island, the time to get there, and the succession of stars and islands to follow to get there. These islands included the Society Islands, the Austral Islands, the Cook Islands, plus Samoa, Tonga, Tokelau and Fiji.[1] > when asked for details of the region Tupaia drew a chart showing all 130 islands within a 2,000 miles (3,200 km) radius and was able to name 74 of them > The chart he drew for James Cook in August 1769 shows interconnected voyaging routes ranging from Rotuma west of Samoa, via Samoa and Tonga, the southern Cook Islands and the Austral Group, Mangareva and Pitcairn all the way to Rapa Nui. A second major composite route leads from Tahiti through the Tuamotu Group to the Marquesas Group and on to Oahu in Hawai'i. Tupaia invented a cartographic system for Cook and his men which located a northern bearing from any island he drew in the centre of his Chart (marked by the word 'avatea', this is '[the sun at] noon'). This allowed him to translate his own wayfinding knowledge for island-to-island voyages into the logic and terms of Cook's compass. The Admiralty manuscript of James Cook's journal indicates that Tupaia told Cook that he himself (or his ancestors) travelled to most islands drawn on the Chart excepting only Rotuma (north of Fiji) and Oahu in Hawai'i. [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupaia_(navigator) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupaia_(navigator)
totetsu 6y ago
Having dipped my toe in mnemonic techniques, I think part of why we underestimate people of the past, is we have forgotten just how much the human brain is capable of sans external tech.
- vicda 6y ago
  Yeah, it shocked me the first time I memorized a deck of cards with a memory palace. Plus, imagine how well trained muscle memories became since methods would have hardly changed from generations before.
  - totetsu 6y ago
    One of the Polynesian navigational methods I have heard described, was laying down in the bow of the canoe and going into a meditative trace, thereby being able to feel the ocean swell, and infer the location of distant islands by the diffraction pattern of waves. https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringourfluidearth/media_colorbox/2539/media_original/en https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringourfluidearth/media_colorb...
    - newsbinator 6y ago
      I wonder how it was even discovered this works

by svara 6y ago

feedbackposter 6y ago

Except unlike european “explorers” they didnt murder locals en masse.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Grakel 6y ago
You don't have any evidence for that. All of human history is consistently filled with violence, every single day, and it still is. It's easy to criticize the successful, but each of us is the result of a global legacy of competitive murder, no matter your race.
- radford-neal 6y ago
  Indeed. The history of the Chatham islands is enough to dispell any notion that polynesians are somehow incapable of mass murder and enslavement. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham_Islands This history also illustrates that peacefulness is also within the capacity of any people.
  - Grakel 6y ago
    Wow, interesting. We should all feel very lucky that we live in a time where we don't even have to kill our own food, much less each other. And we're only like half way to real peace.
- totetsu 6y ago
  Some Polynesian Body armor was pretty bad ass https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-oceania/oceania-peoples-and-places/micronesia/a/kiribati-armor https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-oceania/oceania-p...
  - markdown 6y ago
    That is Micronesian, not Polynesian. It seems to be very common amongst Americans to think that all Pacific Islanders are Polynesian. Probably because of Hawaii.
AbrahamParangi 6y ago
This is a racist attitude.

mc32 6y ago

Though rogue waves are infrequent I wonder if their vessels were able to navigate them or do those vessels have the same issue as a small fishing boat does?

markdown 6y ago

> Part of the answer I think is that we often underestimate the level of sophistication of people who lived a very long time ago. I couldn't agree more. > Tupaia was born at Ha'amanino Harbour on Ra'iatea around 1725 and became a leading ariori priest for the Taputapuatea marae. Tupaia was trained in the fare-'ai-ra'a-'upu, or schools of learning, about the origin of the cosmos, genealogies, the calendar, proverbs and histories. He was also taught how to be a star navigator. His memorized knowledge included island lists, including their size, reef and harbor locations, whether they were inhabited, and if so, the name of the chief and any food produced there. More importantly, his memory would include the bearing of each island, the time to get there, and the succession of stars and islands to follow to get there. These islands included the Society Islands, the Austral Islands, the Cook Islands, plus Samoa, Tonga, Tokelau and Fiji.[1] > when asked for details of the region Tupaia drew a chart showing all 130 islands within a 2,000 miles (3,200 km) radius and was able to name 74 of them > The chart he drew for James Cook in August 1769 shows interconnected voyaging routes ranging from Rotuma west of Samoa, via Samoa and Tonga, the southern Cook Islands and the Austral Group, Mangareva and Pitcairn all the way to Rapa Nui. A second major composite route leads from Tahiti through the Tuamotu Group to the Marquesas Group and on to Oahu in Hawai'i. Tupaia invented a cartographic system for Cook and his men which located a northern bearing from any island he drew in the centre of his Chart (marked by the word 'avatea', this is '[the sun at] noon'). This allowed him to translate his own wayfinding knowledge for island-to-island voyages into the logic and terms of Cook's compass. The Admiralty manuscript of James Cook's journal indicates that Tupaia told Cook that he himself (or his ancestors) travelled to most islands drawn on the Chart excepting only Rotuma (north of Fiji) and Oahu in Hawai'i. [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupaia_(navigator) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupaia_(navigator)

totetsu 6y ago

Having dipped my toe in mnemonic techniques, I think part of why we underestimate people of the past, is we have forgotten just how much the human brain is capable of sans external tech.

vicda 6y ago
Yeah, it shocked me the first time I memorized a deck of cards with a memory palace. Plus, imagine how well trained muscle memories became since methods would have hardly changed from generations before.
- totetsu 6y ago
  One of the Polynesian navigational methods I have heard described, was laying down in the bow of the canoe and going into a meditative trace, thereby being able to feel the ocean swell, and infer the location of distant islands by the diffraction pattern of waves. https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringourfluidearth/media_colorbox/2539/media_original/en https://manoa.hawaii.edu/exploringourfluidearth/media_colorb...
  - newsbinator 6y ago
    I wonder how it was even discovered this works