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So robinhood's crime was... making it easier to trade? "After funding his account with $15,000 in credit card advances, he began spending more time on the app.

So robinhood's crime was... making it easier to trade? "After funding his account with $15,000 in credit card advances, he began spending more time on the app." "As he repeatedly lost money, Mr. Dobatse took out two $30,000 home equity loans so he could buy and sell more speculative stocks and options, hoping to pay off his debts. " "with whom he has three children" Nothing Robinhood (or anything else) has will cure financial stupidity. Furthermore, anyone who -still- uses robinhood after their various crashes is asking for trouble. I've had zero issues with TD Ameritrade.

lykr0n 6y ago
Yeah. That's not Robinhood's fault. That's just a gambling addiction.
- shkkmo 6y ago
  Which is part of why gambling is as regulated as it is. Robinhood has made trading so easy that it is effectively a gambling platform that doesn't have to adhere to gambling laws.
  - asdff 6y ago
    I wouldn't blame robin hood. It's not like the TD ameritrade app is any more difficult to blow your money with, yet they are getting a pass in this thread due to them being the institution and robinhood being a new and popular face.
  - vmception 6y ago
    gambling is regulated at the state level almost exclusively, which is almost impossible for the financial markets over the last century. and in the financial markets, the federal government already has classist gatekeeping regulations because "poor people are dumb, rich people are smart", which should all be abolished the finger pointing at Robinhood is based on ignorance of the entire sector.
    - vmception 6y ago
      to elaborate, federal financial regulatory gatekeeping is more about "not-rich people have life altering consequences", but to get over those hurdles and make your own choices is based on a baseless wealth and intelligence gap. and of course, the observation that not-rich people have plenty of ways to lose their money in systems with negative expected value, so why apply that to financial systems with positive expected value.
Barrin92 6y ago
It didn't just make it easier to trade, it systematically gamified trading through UX design including confetti graphics when someone makes a trade. It's basically using casino-like mechanisms to trick people into treating their money like monopoly currency. It's plain unethical and ridiculous that 20 year olds with no steady income get access to highly leveraged financial instruments that can ruin them for life.
- oxymoran 6y ago
  The entire stock market is just one big, gamified casino. It’s completely decoupled from the actual performance of any company. I do agree that they should not be letting people that don’t know what they are doing get access to margin trading and leveraged instruments though. That can be disastrous.
- res0nat0r 6y ago
  Should Las Vegas do a financial background check on someone before they are allowed to enter a casino?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - majormajor 6y ago
    How much does a Vegas casino let the average person gamble that they don't already have? So many of these stories involve highly-leveraged options stuff, reminiscent of stuff that even my schoolbook US history summation of the Great Depression described as super-dangerous.
    - penagwin 6y ago
      > How much does a Vegas casino let the average person gamble that they don't already have? Do people not just gamble on credit? I highly doubt casinos care about the average person's financials, as long as the money ends in their pockets. I see no difference between the stock market and gambling, sure there's "smart strategies" to the stock market but at the end of the day it's the same result for anyone with a gambling addiction to either.
beagle3 6y ago
Modern trading of the kind RobinHood provides is gambling. So is buying insurance. There are sometimes good reason to trade or buy insurance. And most people who buy insurance, have a good reason to make that gamble. But many people who trade, certainly through RobinHood, have no reason to trade beyond gambling. Robinhood's crime is that they make it easier (and some claim addictive) to gamble.
dh5 6y ago
Agreed, some degree of personal responsibility is needed in the case of addictive behavior. Robinhood in that aspect (gamification) falls into the same category as gambling, and the only difference is that is that it comes from the Bay Area as opposed to Vegas or AC.
- andrewzah 6y ago
  Trading options is gambling. It is. Just because TDAmeritrade has a very spartan UX doesn't mean people haven't made very stupid trades on it.
  - throaway1990 6y ago
    You are right, but Options trading isn't available to people with less than $5k deposits on Robinhood and I think same is true with margins. Robinhood is more agressive when it comes to margin calls, that actually protects inexperienced investors.
- kjksf 6y ago
  By that definition: does Strava and Duolingo fall into the same category as gambling? Those are both highly gamified apps. So maybe let's not play loose with meaning of words. Gambling means 1 of 2: "play games of chance for money; bet." Investing is not a game of chance. I'm not making investing decisions randomly. "take risky action in the hope of a desired result." Investing could be gambling according to this definition (there are risky investment strategies) but on average investing in U.S. stock market is not risky. If you abstain from doing risky things, you can have 8-15% yearly return by putting all your money in S&P 500 tracking stock. And if you want to blame someone for people's risky investing, blame https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/ (1.3 million people reading stories like "$35k -> $1.25 in 4 months") not Robinhood for making an easy to use stock trading app.
ryanSrich 6y ago
It's a textbook NYT hit piece. Catchy misleading title, but there's no substance. Robinhood did nothing wrong. This man clearly has a gambling addiction.
- throaway1990 6y ago
  I hate hit pieces, Robinhood actually provides a REAL opportunity for poor people with aptitude and high risk tolerance a way out of poverty!

lykr0n 6y ago

Yeah. That's not Robinhood's fault. That's just a gambling addiction.

shkkmo 6y ago
Which is part of why gambling is as regulated as it is. Robinhood has made trading so easy that it is effectively a gambling platform that doesn't have to adhere to gambling laws.
- asdff 6y ago
  I wouldn't blame robin hood. It's not like the TD ameritrade app is any more difficult to blow your money with, yet they are getting a pass in this thread due to them being the institution and robinhood being a new and popular face.
- vmception 6y ago
  gambling is regulated at the state level almost exclusively, which is almost impossible for the financial markets over the last century. and in the financial markets, the federal government already has classist gatekeeping regulations because "poor people are dumb, rich people are smart", which should all be abolished the finger pointing at Robinhood is based on ignorance of the entire sector.
  - vmception 6y ago
    to elaborate, federal financial regulatory gatekeeping is more about "not-rich people have life altering consequences", but to get over those hurdles and make your own choices is based on a baseless wealth and intelligence gap. and of course, the observation that not-rich people have plenty of ways to lose their money in systems with negative expected value, so why apply that to financial systems with positive expected value.

Barrin92 6y ago

It didn't just make it easier to trade, it systematically gamified trading through UX design including confetti graphics when someone makes a trade. It's basically using casino-like mechanisms to trick people into treating their money like monopoly currency. It's plain unethical and ridiculous that 20 year olds with no steady income get access to highly leveraged financial instruments that can ruin them for life.

oxymoran 6y ago
The entire stock market is just one big, gamified casino. It’s completely decoupled from the actual performance of any company. I do agree that they should not be letting people that don’t know what they are doing get access to margin trading and leveraged instruments though. That can be disastrous.
res0nat0r 6y ago
Should Las Vegas do a financial background check on someone before they are allowed to enter a casino?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- majormajor 6y ago
  How much does a Vegas casino let the average person gamble that they don't already have? So many of these stories involve highly-leveraged options stuff, reminiscent of stuff that even my schoolbook US history summation of the Great Depression described as super-dangerous.
  - penagwin 6y ago
    > How much does a Vegas casino let the average person gamble that they don't already have? Do people not just gamble on credit? I highly doubt casinos care about the average person's financials, as long as the money ends in their pockets. I see no difference between the stock market and gambling, sure there's "smart strategies" to the stock market but at the end of the day it's the same result for anyone with a gambling addiction to either.

beagle3 6y ago

Modern trading of the kind RobinHood provides is gambling. So is buying insurance. There are sometimes good reason to trade or buy insurance. And most people who buy insurance, have a good reason to make that gamble. But many people who trade, certainly through RobinHood, have no reason to trade beyond gambling. Robinhood's crime is that they make it easier (and some claim addictive) to gamble.

dh5 6y ago

Agreed, some degree of personal responsibility is needed in the case of addictive behavior. Robinhood in that aspect (gamification) falls into the same category as gambling, and the only difference is that is that it comes from the Bay Area as opposed to Vegas or AC.

andrewzah 6y ago
Trading options is gambling. It is. Just because TDAmeritrade has a very spartan UX doesn't mean people haven't made very stupid trades on it.
- throaway1990 6y ago
  You are right, but Options trading isn't available to people with less than $5k deposits on Robinhood and I think same is true with margins. Robinhood is more agressive when it comes to margin calls, that actually protects inexperienced investors.
kjksf 6y ago
By that definition: does Strava and Duolingo fall into the same category as gambling? Those are both highly gamified apps. So maybe let's not play loose with meaning of words. Gambling means 1 of 2: "play games of chance for money; bet." Investing is not a game of chance. I'm not making investing decisions randomly. "take risky action in the hope of a desired result." Investing could be gambling according to this definition (there are risky investment strategies) but on average investing in U.S. stock market is not risky. If you abstain from doing risky things, you can have 8-15% yearly return by putting all your money in S&P 500 tracking stock. And if you want to blame someone for people's risky investing, blame https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/ https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/ (1.3 million people reading stories like "$35k -> $1.25 in 4 months") not Robinhood for making an easy to use stock trading app.

ryanSrich 6y ago

It's a textbook NYT hit piece. Catchy misleading title, but there's no substance. Robinhood did nothing wrong. This man clearly has a gambling addiction.

throaway1990 6y ago
I hate hit pieces, Robinhood actually provides a REAL opportunity for poor people with aptitude and high risk tolerance a way out of poverty!