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You don't support Apple users on your website? You don't bother to fix breaking issues for any Apple device? I'm genuinely curious to know what industry you wor

by kanobo 6y ago

You don't support Apple users on your website? You don't bother to fix breaking issues for any Apple device? I'm genuinely curious to know what industry you work in since that seems like a huge segment of visitors.

DiabloD3 6y ago
Any websites that I work on, which I don't often anymore, use standards. If its broken in Safari, then Safari needs to support the agreed upon W3C standards. I don't personally do weird cutting edge stuff, its stuff generally that's been supported in Firefox and Chrome stable for years. Safari must implement these, or be discontinued. However, generally, Mac users have always been below 10% of PC users, most of them opt not to use Safari (over half use Chrome, half of whats left use Firefox, roughly; changes over time); in the mobile space, "100%" use Safari due to the anti-trust stance they have against their largest competitors (even if you install Chrome or Firefox or anything else, it is required to be an unoptimized Safari instance underneath, with zero access to any sort of GPU or Javascript optimization) but only a small fraction of handsets sold have been iPhones. Apple says stuff like, almost 2 billion iPhones have been sold since the introduction of it in 2007, but there are 2 billion active Android devices out there currently. Analysis like https://www.statista.com/statistics/266219/global-smartphone-sales-since-1st-quarter-2009-by-operating-system/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266219/global-smartphone... (use https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/265000/266219-blank-754.png https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/265000/266219-blank-754.pn... to get around paywall, blue is Android, black is iOS) basically put a nail in Apple's coffin. Like I've said on here before, if you have a lot of Apple users, you should support them. If you are a huge company, you can afford to deal with the monetary and cognitive overhead of dealing with a developer-hostile company. But for average devs in smaller or medium sized businesses? I don't see the point to give Apple users priority over the majority. Treat them just as you would any other OS or any other browser, no special support just for them. They won't pay you more, in fact, Apple makes sure they pay you less via the 30% grab on out-of-app service signups they're shaking down big companies over. The front page of HN is certainly familiar with Apple shakedown stories, at this point it's really hard to argue in favor of supporting Apple anymore than the bare minimum for as little gain as you get.
- andrewmcwatters 6y ago
  The thing is, I think this font-weight behavior is perfectly standard. The author isn't familiar with the standard at all, however.
- alwillis 6y ago
  it is required to be an unoptimized Safari instance underneath, with zero access to any sort of GPU or Javascript optimization) but only a small fraction of handsets sold have been iPhones. 3rd party browsers have had access to WKWebView for a while now, so they get almost all the goodies Safari has access to. You can read all about it at "New Chrome for iOS is finally as fast and stable as Safari"--https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/new-chrome-for-ios-is-finally-as-fast-and-stable-as-safari/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/new-chrome-for-ios-i.... The iPhone has a little more than 45% of the smartphone market in the United States, which is not nothin’: https://www.statista.com/statistics/236550/percentage-of-us-population-that-own-a-iphone-smartphone/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/236550/percentage-of-us-.... And there are over 1.5 billion active devices in the world--and growing: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/28/apple-1-5-billion-active-devices-worldwide/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/28/apple-1-5-billion-activ... The number of devices running the most current version of Android is pretty small compared to the 80-90% of iOS devices that run the most current operating system. That matters for both web developers and native app developers. For example, Android 9.0 Pie is only 32.43% of the installed base of Android users. Which means 60%+ are older versions that don't support the latest web features, etc: https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobi... On the other hand, iOS 13 is installed on 92% of all iPhones sold in the last 4 years: https://www.imore.com/ios-13-has-been-installed-92-iphones-released-last-4-years https://www.imore.com/ios-13-has-been-installed-92-iphones-r... Anyone who’s website is used by US smartphone users by definition has a lot of iPhone customers.

by kanobo 6y ago

DiabloD3 6y ago

Any websites that I work on, which I don't often anymore, use standards. If its broken in Safari, then Safari needs to support the agreed upon W3C standards. I don't personally do weird cutting edge stuff, its stuff generally that's been supported in Firefox and Chrome stable for years. Safari must implement these, or be discontinued. However, generally, Mac users have always been below 10% of PC users, most of them opt not to use Safari (over half use Chrome, half of whats left use Firefox, roughly; changes over time); in the mobile space, "100%" use Safari due to the anti-trust stance they have against their largest competitors (even if you install Chrome or Firefox or anything else, it is required to be an unoptimized Safari instance underneath, with zero access to any sort of GPU or Javascript optimization) but only a small fraction of handsets sold have been iPhones. Apple says stuff like, almost 2 billion iPhones have been sold since the introduction of it in 2007, but there are 2 billion active Android devices out there currently. Analysis like https://www.statista.com/statistics/266219/global-smartphone-sales-since-1st-quarter-2009-by-operating-system/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266219/global-smartphone... (use https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/265000/266219-blank-754.png https://cdn.statcdn.com/Statistic/265000/266219-blank-754.pn... to get around paywall, blue is Android, black is iOS) basically put a nail in Apple's coffin. Like I've said on here before, if you have a lot of Apple users, you should support them. If you are a huge company, you can afford to deal with the monetary and cognitive overhead of dealing with a developer-hostile company. But for average devs in smaller or medium sized businesses? I don't see the point to give Apple users priority over the majority. Treat them just as you would any other OS or any other browser, no special support just for them. They won't pay you more, in fact, Apple makes sure they pay you less via the 30% grab on out-of-app service signups they're shaking down big companies over. The front page of HN is certainly familiar with Apple shakedown stories, at this point it's really hard to argue in favor of supporting Apple anymore than the bare minimum for as little gain as you get.

andrewmcwatters 6y ago
The thing is, I think this font-weight behavior is perfectly standard. The author isn't familiar with the standard at all, however.
alwillis 6y ago
it is required to be an unoptimized Safari instance underneath, with zero access to any sort of GPU or Javascript optimization) but only a small fraction of handsets sold have been iPhones. 3rd party browsers have had access to WKWebView for a while now, so they get almost all the goodies Safari has access to. You can read all about it at "New Chrome for iOS is finally as fast and stable as Safari"--https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/new-chrome-for-ios-is-finally-as-fast-and-stable-as-safari/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/new-chrome-for-ios-i.... The iPhone has a little more than 45% of the smartphone market in the United States, which is not nothin’: https://www.statista.com/statistics/236550/percentage-of-us-population-that-own-a-iphone-smartphone/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/236550/percentage-of-us-.... And there are over 1.5 billion active devices in the world--and growing: https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/28/apple-1-5-billion-active-devices-worldwide/ https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/28/apple-1-5-billion-activ... The number of devices running the most current version of Android is pretty small compared to the 80-90% of iOS devices that run the most current operating system. That matters for both web developers and native app developers. For example, Android 9.0 Pie is only 32.43% of the installed base of Android users. Which means 60%+ are older versions that don't support the latest web features, etc: https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobile-tablet/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/android-version-market-share/mobi... On the other hand, iOS 13 is installed on 92% of all iPhones sold in the last 4 years: https://www.imore.com/ios-13-has-been-installed-92-iphones-released-last-4-years https://www.imore.com/ios-13-has-been-installed-92-iphones-r... Anyone who’s website is used by US smartphone users by definition has a lot of iPhone customers.