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> Canonical's decision to abuse the power of apt packages to make it some "universal installer" is kinda gross. This is a mischaracterization. "chromium-browse

by rlpb 6y ago

> Canonical's decision to abuse the power of apt packages to make it some "universal installer" is kinda gross. This is a mischaracterization. "chromium-browser" is a transitional package that installs the chromium snap for one reason: it is to provide an upgrade path for users of Chromium in previous Ubuntu releases to the latest Ubuntu release without breaking Chromium. I use an example of where Debian does the same thing: on the latest Debian release, install "mysql-server" and you'll get MariaDB, not MySQL. Granted this doesn't bridge across from a deb to a snap, but the mechanism is the same and the technical reasoning is the same. It is to stop users from ending up with a regression in available software following an upgrade. There is no "to make it some "universal installer"" going on here. You may not like the decision, but please do not make it out to be for reasons that do not exist - at least without providing the facts to allow readers to decide for themselves. (I work for Canonical but don't work in an area related to the Chromium snap, Snap Store, this decision, etc. I speak for myself, and not Canonical).

Spivak 6y ago
Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I understand that it follows the pattern of transitional packages and that this was a practical decision to not break people's existing setups. But I don't necessarily agree with the decision because "install Chromium via apt" now doesn't make any sense. It really should be something like "Ubuntu doesn't package Chromium anymore, but a Canonical supported package is available in the Snap store." Because Chromium via snap isn't a drop-in replacement: it automatically updates, it's not versioned with the distro, the usual file paths you would expect to exist aren't there anymore. I use "universal installer" because Canonical has made apt do something really unexpected. Canonically has effectively made apt a frontend for snaps. I wouldn't expect that if I tried to install a package what wasn't in Ubuntu's repos that it would try to find some PPA that has that package, automatically enable and trust it, and install it from there.
Avamander 6y ago
> it is to provide an upgrade path for users of Chromium in previous Ubuntu releases to the latest Ubuntu release without breaking Chromium. Are you seriously, unironically claiming this? You broke a massive amount of native plugins. The snap auto-update mechanism fucks up Chromium's data each time because Chromium gets no warning that it suddenly can't write to the disk. Its launch time is also way worse. On top of all that, Chromium just vomits all over syslog due to incomplete/bad confinement. You even made the damn switch when a massive CVE was found in Chromium, delaying a critical security update for a week due to the switch. What a massive load of bullshit.
- rlpb 6y ago
  > Are you seriously, unironically claiming this? Yes - because when I say "without breaking Chromium", I mean that Chromium wouldn't work at all because it wouldn't be installed following an upgrade, as opposed to some things you don't like about how the Chromium snap works but don't apply to the majority of Chromium users. Edit: you seem to be conflating your disagreement on Ubuntu's choice to move to shipping Chromium as a snap with a technical detail on how the upgrade path for users was achieved. I understand you disagree with the former. The claim that this is about "make it some "universal installer"" is entirely false, and I'm simply pointing out why. Downmodding me for disagreeing with the former is doubly inappropriate here.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    > I mean that Chromium wouldn't work at all because it wouldn't be installed following an upgrade Because you don't ship it as a normal package any more, which is caused by you. Calling it something you did "for the users for the sake of not breaking it" is really rather nasty. > you seem to be conflating your disagreement on Ubuntu's choice to move to shipping Chromium as a snap with a technical detail on how the upgrade path for users was achieved. Oh I disagree with both, there's no conflation there.
  - afiori 6y ago
    > Chromium wouldn't work at all because it wouldn't be installed following an upgrade I am not an expert in apt/deb, could expand on this part? Is this a problem due to Canonical not offering a chromium deb or is it something that was already happening before? (like chromium requires many libraries to be of specific versions and if you pin them in apt then sometimes it is impossible to install any version)

by rlpb 6y ago

Spivak 6y ago

Sorry, I should have been more explicit. I understand that it follows the pattern of transitional packages and that this was a practical decision to not break people's existing setups. But I don't necessarily agree with the decision because "install Chromium via apt" now doesn't make any sense. It really should be something like "Ubuntu doesn't package Chromium anymore, but a Canonical supported package is available in the Snap store." Because Chromium via snap isn't a drop-in replacement: it automatically updates, it's not versioned with the distro, the usual file paths you would expect to exist aren't there anymore. I use "universal installer" because Canonical has made apt do something really unexpected. Canonically has effectively made apt a frontend for snaps. I wouldn't expect that if I tried to install a package what wasn't in Ubuntu's repos that it would try to find some PPA that has that package, automatically enable and trust it, and install it from there.

Avamander 6y ago

> it is to provide an upgrade path for users of Chromium in previous Ubuntu releases to the latest Ubuntu release without breaking Chromium. Are you seriously, unironically claiming this? You broke a massive amount of native plugins. The snap auto-update mechanism fucks up Chromium's data each time because Chromium gets no warning that it suddenly can't write to the disk. Its launch time is also way worse. On top of all that, Chromium just vomits all over syslog due to incomplete/bad confinement. You even made the damn switch when a massive CVE was found in Chromium, delaying a critical security update for a week due to the switch. What a massive load of bullshit.

rlpb 6y ago
> Are you seriously, unironically claiming this? Yes - because when I say "without breaking Chromium", I mean that Chromium wouldn't work at all because it wouldn't be installed following an upgrade, as opposed to some things you don't like about how the Chromium snap works but don't apply to the majority of Chromium users. Edit: you seem to be conflating your disagreement on Ubuntu's choice to move to shipping Chromium as a snap with a technical detail on how the upgrade path for users was achieved. I understand you disagree with the former. The claim that this is about "make it some "universal installer"" is entirely false, and I'm simply pointing out why. Downmodding me for disagreeing with the former is doubly inappropriate here.
- Avamander 6y ago
  > I mean that Chromium wouldn't work at all because it wouldn't be installed following an upgrade Because you don't ship it as a normal package any more, which is caused by you. Calling it something you did "for the users for the sake of not breaking it" is really rather nasty. > you seem to be conflating your disagreement on Ubuntu's choice to move to shipping Chromium as a snap with a technical detail on how the upgrade path for users was achieved. Oh I disagree with both, there's no conflation there.
- afiori 6y ago
  > Chromium wouldn't work at all because it wouldn't be installed following an upgrade I am not an expert in apt/deb, could expand on this part? Is this a problem due to Canonical not offering a chromium deb or is it something that was already happening before? (like chromium requires many libraries to be of specific versions and if you pin them in apt then sometimes it is impossible to install any version)