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"Only if they drop Fuchsia." I hate to say it, but this is beginning to look like a real possibility. It looks like Google has been implementing into Android

by mikece 6y ago

"Only if they drop Fuchsia." I hate to say it, but this is beginning to look like a real possibility. It looks like Google has been implementing into Android a lot of the modular, "make the system easier to update" aspects of Fuchsia with each release of Android. I think Oracle's continuing fight to make Google pay financially for using Java is doing more to keep Fuchsia alive anything else. If Oracle relents then it's possible that Nest devices (the only Fuchsia-based products currently shipping afaik) could eventually switch to an IoT version of Android... but since Oracle is a litigation firm that also happens to sell databases I don't see them ever stopping the lawsuits.

The_rationalist 6y ago
If Android switch to openjdk like everybody else, they'll be lawsuit proof
- kllrnohj 6y ago
  They did: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/android-n-switches-to-openjdk-google-tells-oracle-it-is-protected-by-the-gpl/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/android-n-switch... The runtime remains ART, though, but that wasn't the issue in the lawsuit.
  - The_rationalist 6y ago
    I had read that too and I do not understand at all. What is openjdk beyond a runtime VM ? They do not use what truly qualify as openjdk otherwise they would have C2 and G1 and therefore true java 8+ support, for free.
    - kllrnohj 6y ago
      They're using the libraries - the part that Oracle is claiming is copyrighted. The java.* packages.
      - The_rationalist 6y ago
        javax.* is copyrighted and is now copyleft if you use the jakarta.* namespace instead. as for java.* I don't see how one could have issues, for example Kotlin use and extend the java standard library without any lawsuit. I believe that the issue was that Android devs copy pasted copyrighted code and putted them in their own reimplementation of the jdk without respecting the original authors. Their reimplementation (dalvik & ci) is the root of all evil and is technically a mess with antic java support. It's such a shame that we can't have ZGC or senandoah on android...
        kllrnohj 6y ago
        > I believe that the issue was that Android devs copy pasted copyrighted code and putted them in their own reimplementation of the jdk without respecting the original authors. Your belief is firmly incorrect. The "copied code" claim was for a 9-line rangeCheck function and was otherwise dropped. The main claim is entirely that the java.* API definitions are copyrighted, and therefore Google's clean room re-implementation of the APIs still violates the copyright of the API itself. Which is a lawsuit that Oracle won, by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America#First_phase:_API_copyrightability_and_patents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America#First... The open question at this point is whether a clean-room re-implementation of a copyrighted API for the purposes of compatibility is considered fair use or not. Which so far Oracle has been winning. Which means approximately everything is in copyright violation in the tech world. POSIX, for example, took the API from commercial Unix OS's of the time. The current owners of Unix, Micro Focus, could sue approximately everyone if Oracle wins.
        The_rationalist 6y ago
        I stand corrected yet while the legal implications are interesting and important the point still is that Android should totally switch to openjdk, end of story.
        kllrnohj 6y ago
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    They did not, that article doesn't show the actual reality. As one can follow up on AOSP Gerrit comments, code from OpenJDK gets cherry picked into Android. https://android-review.googlesource.com/q/project:platform%252Flibcore https://android-review.googlesource.com/q/project:platform%2...

by mikece 6y ago

The_rationalist 6y ago

If Android switch to openjdk like everybody else, they'll be lawsuit proof

kllrnohj 6y ago
They did: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/android-n-switches-to-openjdk-google-tells-oracle-it-is-protected-by-the-gpl/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/android-n-switch... The runtime remains ART, though, but that wasn't the issue in the lawsuit.
- The_rationalist 6y ago
  I had read that too and I do not understand at all. What is openjdk beyond a runtime VM ? They do not use what truly qualify as openjdk otherwise they would have C2 and G1 and therefore true java 8+ support, for free.
  - kllrnohj 6y ago
    They're using the libraries - the part that Oracle is claiming is copyrighted. The java.* packages.
    - The_rationalist 6y ago
      javax.* is copyrighted and is now copyleft if you use the jakarta.* namespace instead. as for java.* I don't see how one could have issues, for example Kotlin use and extend the java standard library without any lawsuit. I believe that the issue was that Android devs copy pasted copyrighted code and putted them in their own reimplementation of the jdk without respecting the original authors. Their reimplementation (dalvik & ci) is the root of all evil and is technically a mess with antic java support. It's such a shame that we can't have ZGC or senandoah on android...
      - kllrnohj 6y ago
        > I believe that the issue was that Android devs copy pasted copyrighted code and putted them in their own reimplementation of the jdk without respecting the original authors. Your belief is firmly incorrect. The "copied code" claim was for a 9-line rangeCheck function and was otherwise dropped. The main claim is entirely that the java.* API definitions are copyrighted, and therefore Google's clean room re-implementation of the APIs still violates the copyright of the API itself. Which is a lawsuit that Oracle won, by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America#First_phase:_API_copyrightability_and_patents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_v._Oracle_America#First... The open question at this point is whether a clean-room re-implementation of a copyrighted API for the purposes of compatibility is considered fair use or not. Which so far Oracle has been winning. Which means approximately everything is in copyright violation in the tech world. POSIX, for example, took the API from commercial Unix OS's of the time. The current owners of Unix, Micro Focus, could sue approximately everyone if Oracle wins.
        The_rationalist 6y ago
        I stand corrected yet while the legal implications are interesting and important the point still is that Android should totally switch to openjdk, end of story.
        kllrnohj 6y ago
- pjmlp 6y ago
  They did not, that article doesn't show the actual reality. As one can follow up on AOSP Gerrit comments, code from OpenJDK gets cherry picked into Android. https://android-review.googlesource.com/q/project:platform%252Flibcore https://android-review.googlesource.com/q/project:platform%2...