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This link was posted here yesterday: https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-students-in-the-us-by-country-of-origin/ https://www.statista.com

by chvid 6y ago

This link was posted here yesterday: https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-students-in-the-us-by-country-of-origin/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-stu... 370.000 students from China, 200.000 from India, 52.000 from South Korea. This policy change affects hundreds of thousands students and must generate a massive loss in economic terms.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>This policy change affects hundreds of thousands students and must generate a massive loss in economic terms. It certainly does. But it's worth keeping in mind that you only have to drive about an hour north or west of either campus for "MIT/Hardvard, Boston area landlords and businesses lose out on billions of dollars from foreign students" to flip from bad news to good news. Look at the politics of this and where ICEs actions stand on the spectrum of immigration, foreign relations and COVID (and probably a couple other issues that I'm not thinking of) and it all makes sense. The administration will win brownie points among those people who already support it with this policy from the get go. This policy also pits the landlords and business owners in the college towns (who have a big interest in the school's opening, but don't have any love for the administration) against the colleges.
- christiansakai 6y ago
  Can you elaborate more?
  - hef19898 6y ago
    This measure restricts immigration, a declared goal of Trumps sdministration. And it basically tries to force Universities to open for the fall semester. Again something the administration wants. It only works, so, if t holds up in court. There, Trumps administration doesn't have the best track record.
    - christiansakai 6y ago
      Not that. I mean, the commenter argued that this whole thing is better for the business even nearby the campus. How could that be? As far as I can see, this actually destroys the business nearby the campus.
      - hef19898 6y ago
        Ah, that. Agree, less students means less business. Assuming foreign students permanently live near campus, it would even hurt more during Covid-related closures. EDIT: I read OP that this policy ams to force campuses to open for fall. That would mean more students on site. Even without international ones, that is more than now.
      - readarticle 6y ago
        No, they noted that the news of Boston area landlords and businesses losing billions due to these restrictions will probably be met with general applause less than an hour or two outside the city, thus bad news becomes good news, the urban / rural-ish divide. Immigration restrictions in general would probably be applauded, but immigration restrictions that only directly affect colleges and cities? Slam dunk for Trump among his base.
- as300 6y ago
  >Look at the politics of this and where ICEs actions stand on the spectrum of immigration, foreign relations and COVID (and probably a couple other issues that I'm not thinking of) and it all makes sense. The COVID angle seems to me to be a total fig-leaf for other aims, seeing as the administration didn't do much for public health wrt covid - no strictly enforced lockdowns, no leadership on calling out states opening up too early, and not showing the president wearing a face covering. Also lets be real, the average international student is far less likely to transmit the virus than your average face-covering conspiracy-theorist American. (Especially those from China or SK - places where there are already cultural norms formed around limiting spread of infectious diseases) Let's call a spade a spade. This is an attempt to enforce extralegal policy limiting immigration to the US via reducing the number of people on student visas.
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    The administration's policy on COVID is that it wants everything open and open yesterday, virus be damned. This new ICE policy that punishes universities for not doing so and tailors the punishment to mostly exempt the areas that vote for him. The schools attracting foreigners tend to be in left leaning college towns or in left leaning cities. The smaller state universities and community colleges that are in redder voting areas aren't nearly as dependent on foreign labor because they don't have as big grad student programs. You're right about where this falls on immigration.
    - Spellman 6y ago
      That'd be some interesting data to show backing up your claims this affects only the more left leaning campuses.
      - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
        Look at any county by county map showing who voted for who in a presidential election in the last 20yr. The cities lean left. Where are the universities with graduate programs big enough to attract substantial foreign interest located? Mostly cities. So who gets hurt by this policy the most? Places (and people) who lean left.
- locthrow5495 6y ago
  There have been very few Trump signs here in Hampden county, an hour and a half west and one of the most Republican areas of the state. Mask compliance is nearly universal as well. New Hampshire is its own thing, of course.
- TigeriusKirk 6y ago
  Obviously landlords and businesses will lose out because of the decision to go fully online. They might anyway, since there wouldn't be any requirement I'm aware of that the student visa holders would have to stay near a school they were merely logging into. They could spend their semesters anywhere in the country in theory. But surely even if the foreign students are forced to leave the US they'll stay enrolled in (and paying for) the classes. Isn't the education the point?
  - msbarnett 6y ago
    > But surely even if the foreign students are forced to leave the US they'll stay enrolled in (and paying for) the classes. Isn't the education the point? Given that returning to, say, Beijing would mean your 3 PM Friday class at Harvard happens at 3:00 am Saturday, local (this isn't Coursera – most of these classes will be conducted online with real-time instruction, as they were for the remainder of last semester), I'd expect a lot of students would seek to transfer elsewhere.
- op03 6y ago
  Its a pretty blue state - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Massachusetts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Massachusetts
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mc32 6y ago
The institutions are there primarily to educate our workforce. There are thousands of locally deserving students who don’t have opportunity, either went to wrong schools or don’t know how to navigate the system that’s geared toward connections or wealth. These institutions could fill their student bodies with thousands upon thousands of our own students who get overlooked. On the other hand they’ve grown used to foreign money filling their coffers.
- pesfandiar 6y ago
  I imagine international students are a major source of revenue for most schools, and help subsidize the ever-increasing tuition and fees for domestic students.
- acroback 6y ago
  FYI, international students have to pay often significantly more as turion fee alone. Smart local students go to in state public schools to avoid crippling debt.
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  Well, except aren't foreign students essentially subsidizing local students? Since they receive substantially less financial aid and often pay the full price of tuition. [1] So when all of that money goes away, tuition rises and local students get less financial aid. Or said universities and colleges downsize, reducing the number of professors and students attending which means fewer local students get to go to college. This seems like a 'cut your nose to spite your face' sort of reaction fueled entirely by xenophobia rather than any sort of rational basis. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/foreign-students-pay-up-to-three-times-as-much-for-tuition-at-us-public-colleges-2016-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/foreign-students-pay-up-to-t...
  - mc32 6y ago
    MIT and Harvard. They have billions in endowments. I’d prefer a kid from the Bronx or san joaquin valley or butte Montana get a scholarship than someone who could choose any school they want (intl students going to these places are not poor).

by chvid 6y ago

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>This policy change affects hundreds of thousands students and must generate a massive loss in economic terms. It certainly does. But it's worth keeping in mind that you only have to drive about an hour north or west of either campus for "MIT/Hardvard, Boston area landlords and businesses lose out on billions of dollars from foreign students" to flip from bad news to good news. Look at the politics of this and where ICEs actions stand on the spectrum of immigration, foreign relations and COVID (and probably a couple other issues that I'm not thinking of) and it all makes sense. The administration will win brownie points among those people who already support it with this policy from the get go. This policy also pits the landlords and business owners in the college towns (who have a big interest in the school's opening, but don't have any love for the administration) against the colleges.

christiansakai 6y ago
Can you elaborate more?
- hef19898 6y ago
  This measure restricts immigration, a declared goal of Trumps sdministration. And it basically tries to force Universities to open for the fall semester. Again something the administration wants. It only works, so, if t holds up in court. There, Trumps administration doesn't have the best track record.
  - christiansakai 6y ago
    Not that. I mean, the commenter argued that this whole thing is better for the business even nearby the campus. How could that be? As far as I can see, this actually destroys the business nearby the campus.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      Ah, that. Agree, less students means less business. Assuming foreign students permanently live near campus, it would even hurt more during Covid-related closures. EDIT: I read OP that this policy ams to force campuses to open for fall. That would mean more students on site. Even without international ones, that is more than now.
    - readarticle 6y ago
      No, they noted that the news of Boston area landlords and businesses losing billions due to these restrictions will probably be met with general applause less than an hour or two outside the city, thus bad news becomes good news, the urban / rural-ish divide. Immigration restrictions in general would probably be applauded, but immigration restrictions that only directly affect colleges and cities? Slam dunk for Trump among his base.
as300 6y ago
>Look at the politics of this and where ICEs actions stand on the spectrum of immigration, foreign relations and COVID (and probably a couple other issues that I'm not thinking of) and it all makes sense. The COVID angle seems to me to be a total fig-leaf for other aims, seeing as the administration didn't do much for public health wrt covid - no strictly enforced lockdowns, no leadership on calling out states opening up too early, and not showing the president wearing a face covering. Also lets be real, the average international student is far less likely to transmit the virus than your average face-covering conspiracy-theorist American. (Especially those from China or SK - places where there are already cultural norms formed around limiting spread of infectious diseases) Let's call a spade a spade. This is an attempt to enforce extralegal policy limiting immigration to the US via reducing the number of people on student visas.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  The administration's policy on COVID is that it wants everything open and open yesterday, virus be damned. This new ICE policy that punishes universities for not doing so and tailors the punishment to mostly exempt the areas that vote for him. The schools attracting foreigners tend to be in left leaning college towns or in left leaning cities. The smaller state universities and community colleges that are in redder voting areas aren't nearly as dependent on foreign labor because they don't have as big grad student programs. You're right about where this falls on immigration.
  - Spellman 6y ago
    That'd be some interesting data to show backing up your claims this affects only the more left leaning campuses.
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      Look at any county by county map showing who voted for who in a presidential election in the last 20yr. The cities lean left. Where are the universities with graduate programs big enough to attract substantial foreign interest located? Mostly cities. So who gets hurt by this policy the most? Places (and people) who lean left.
locthrow5495 6y ago
There have been very few Trump signs here in Hampden county, an hour and a half west and one of the most Republican areas of the state. Mask compliance is nearly universal as well. New Hampshire is its own thing, of course.
TigeriusKirk 6y ago
Obviously landlords and businesses will lose out because of the decision to go fully online. They might anyway, since there wouldn't be any requirement I'm aware of that the student visa holders would have to stay near a school they were merely logging into. They could spend their semesters anywhere in the country in theory. But surely even if the foreign students are forced to leave the US they'll stay enrolled in (and paying for) the classes. Isn't the education the point?
- msbarnett 6y ago
  > But surely even if the foreign students are forced to leave the US they'll stay enrolled in (and paying for) the classes. Isn't the education the point? Given that returning to, say, Beijing would mean your 3 PM Friday class at Harvard happens at 3:00 am Saturday, local (this isn't Coursera – most of these classes will be conducted online with real-time instruction, as they were for the remainder of last semester), I'd expect a lot of students would seek to transfer elsewhere.
op03 6y ago
Its a pretty blue state - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Massachusetts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Massachusetts

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mc32 6y ago

The institutions are there primarily to educate our workforce. There are thousands of locally deserving students who don’t have opportunity, either went to wrong schools or don’t know how to navigate the system that’s geared toward connections or wealth. These institutions could fill their student bodies with thousands upon thousands of our own students who get overlooked. On the other hand they’ve grown used to foreign money filling their coffers.

pesfandiar 6y ago
I imagine international students are a major source of revenue for most schools, and help subsidize the ever-increasing tuition and fees for domestic students.
acroback 6y ago
FYI, international students have to pay often significantly more as turion fee alone. Smart local students go to in state public schools to avoid crippling debt.
fzeroracer 6y ago
Well, except aren't foreign students essentially subsidizing local students? Since they receive substantially less financial aid and often pay the full price of tuition. [1] So when all of that money goes away, tuition rises and local students get less financial aid. Or said universities and colleges downsize, reducing the number of professors and students attending which means fewer local students get to go to college. This seems like a 'cut your nose to spite your face' sort of reaction fueled entirely by xenophobia rather than any sort of rational basis. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/foreign-students-pay-up-to-three-times-as-much-for-tuition-at-us-public-colleges-2016-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/foreign-students-pay-up-to-t...
- mc32 6y ago
  MIT and Harvard. They have billions in endowments. I’d prefer a kid from the Bronx or san joaquin valley or butte Montana get a scholarship than someone who could choose any school they want (intl students going to these places are not poor).