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Other than a better financial situation, what else have you achieved doing this? This makes me feel like software development world is just some big hollow game

Other than a better financial situation, what else have you achieved doing this? This makes me feel like software development world is just some big hollow game where making a positive change to the world takes the back seat.

scarface74 6y ago
Other than a better financial situation.... What other reason would I go to work everyday?
- discordance 6y ago
  Fulfillment through solving meaningful challenges?
- mgkimsal 6y ago
  Arguably, "job satisfaction" is a factor as well, but... it's hard to have job satisfaction when you see others earning 50% more for doing less (or inferior) work, especially if it's in the same company. And it's also hard to have 'job satisfaction' when decisions are made outside your control. I can live with fewer decision making abilities if compensated for in other ways, and that's usually pay rate.
- sombremesa 6y ago
  Once I had my first real existential crisis, I realized that the things I wanted to leave behind weren't things that someone else could've easily (and honestly, might as well have) done. Furthermore, I wanted to spend my life doing things I actually want to do. So now I have a job that pays below market rate but leaves me with a lot more time, in which to write my novels. I have more than enough money - more money won't make me any happier, but less discretional time will certainly make me worse off.
  - platz 6y ago
    you might feel different about this tradeoff when you're older (read: less easily in demand) or have family to support. There is no such thing as having money to burn at the middle-class level unless you want to live on peanuts when you're in retirement.
    - sombremesa 6y ago
      To begin with, I'm not a person who 'burns' money - I'm sure I'd be in a different place if I was. When I say 'enough money' I don't just mean enough money for current expenses. In my opinion, there really is an amount of money beyond which you're probably just adding a measure of unhappiness to your life, if you're making money your first-order objective.
      - nightski 6y ago
        You are correlating pursuing a higher salary with longer hours. That doesn't have to be the case. I quadrupled my income by just going freelance and I generally work 20-30 hours a week. By focusing on money you can actually reduce your overall burden. In my humble opinion this far and away beats taking some low salary job just to get more time.
      - scarface74 6y ago
        “I wish I had less money”. Said no one ever. While you are busy not being concerned about money. I bet your employer is glad to be getting you cheaply.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - rurp 6y ago
      A great many people raise families and live comfortable lives on less money than a somewhat below market dev salary. If you want to live in the middle of San Francisco or buy luxury goods then sure, you need to strive to earn a lot of money, but that doesn't describe most people.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    I don’t care about leaving things behind - I care about not being 70 years old and broke. The best case outcome is that we both spend our last penny when we are on our death bed.
- joshspankit 6y ago
  I mean based on the comment, presumably “making a positive change to the world”
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  I feel bad for people whose are trapped by a paycheck in a career they don't love. STEM delights me and if I became financially independent, I'd probably still go on learning about and building software & hardware just for the fun of it.
  - non-entity 6y ago
    > I feel bad for people whose are trapped by a paycheck in a career they don't love. This is kinda of where I am right now. I still enjoy programming, but its becoming more and more apparent that I should have kept it as a hobby and pursued something else as a career.
  - virgilp 6y ago
    > I'd probably still go on learning about and building software & hardware just for the fun of it. That's the thing - this is much easier to do when you're financially independent. If you have kids, and have to put them through school, and maybe have sick parents to care for - costs can add up fairly quickly; and it's easy to find yourself in a position where you can't lose your job, which is a lousy position to be in. Interesting part is - it can also be easier to choose what you work for when you have more money (or at least that's been my personal experience so far). A different version of the "rich getting richer" dynamic, basically - it's easy to say "no" to stupid things, to avoid or leave crappy jobs. Also if you're highly paid that often means you're listened to/ your voice has some weight - so chances of working on stuff that delights you increase significantly.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      To put it more succinctly. It’s nice to be in a position of F%%% you. (NSFW:Language) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI
  - scarface74 6y ago
    I have been programming as a hobby since the 80s when I was in middle school writing 65C02 assembly, I don’t hate my job, but by the time I graduated in the mid 90s, it became purely a method to maintain my short term addiction to food and shelter and my long term desire not to be old and broke.
- bpyne 6y ago
  I enjoy learning about the industrial area I'm in (higher education). I enjoy creating software that people use daily. I enjoy creative problem solving. I enjoy learning how different organizations fulfill their reason for being while handling operational details. I go to work for these reasons, as well as, a comfortable pay. I don't mind working. I would just like to do it less. A few years ago I dropped to part-time in order to be in a grad program in CS. I found that 25 hours provided me with the perfect life balance.
- vitro 6y ago
  For a sense of an accomplishment and knowing that you have made world a bit better place while enjoying what you do, maybe? Japanese has a nice word for it, "Ikigai".
  - redisman 6y ago
    Don't look to the Japanese for work-life balance though.
shuntress 6y ago
It's not specific to software development. Every field has people who's main focus is to "climb the ladder". Whether making a positive change to the world is in the front or back seat (or in the vehicle at all) will depend on company culture and may even differ within a single org.
ivanche 6y ago
Better financial situation * many, many years = freedom. You have to live like no one else until, one day, you'll live like no one else.
- war1025 6y ago
  Sounds like the whole Mexican fisherman story. I make good money. I work 10am-5pm every day. I don't make as much money as people who are more career oriented. But I also save 50% of my paycheck even factoring in that I have a wife and three kids, and my wife stays home with them. What's the point of chasing more money? If anything, I'd like to scale back, but that's not the easiest thing to do.

scarface74 6y ago

Other than a better financial situation.... What other reason would I go to work everyday?

discordance 6y ago
Fulfillment through solving meaningful challenges?
mgkimsal 6y ago
Arguably, "job satisfaction" is a factor as well, but... it's hard to have job satisfaction when you see others earning 50% more for doing less (or inferior) work, especially if it's in the same company. And it's also hard to have 'job satisfaction' when decisions are made outside your control. I can live with fewer decision making abilities if compensated for in other ways, and that's usually pay rate.
sombremesa 6y ago
Once I had my first real existential crisis, I realized that the things I wanted to leave behind weren't things that someone else could've easily (and honestly, might as well have) done. Furthermore, I wanted to spend my life doing things I actually want to do. So now I have a job that pays below market rate but leaves me with a lot more time, in which to write my novels. I have more than enough money - more money won't make me any happier, but less discretional time will certainly make me worse off.
- platz 6y ago
  you might feel different about this tradeoff when you're older (read: less easily in demand) or have family to support. There is no such thing as having money to burn at the middle-class level unless you want to live on peanuts when you're in retirement.
  - sombremesa 6y ago
    To begin with, I'm not a person who 'burns' money - I'm sure I'd be in a different place if I was. When I say 'enough money' I don't just mean enough money for current expenses. In my opinion, there really is an amount of money beyond which you're probably just adding a measure of unhappiness to your life, if you're making money your first-order objective.
    - nightski 6y ago
      You are correlating pursuing a higher salary with longer hours. That doesn't have to be the case. I quadrupled my income by just going freelance and I generally work 20-30 hours a week. By focusing on money you can actually reduce your overall burden. In my humble opinion this far and away beats taking some low salary job just to get more time.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      “I wish I had less money”. Said no one ever. While you are busy not being concerned about money. I bet your employer is glad to be getting you cheaply.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - rurp 6y ago
    A great many people raise families and live comfortable lives on less money than a somewhat below market dev salary. If you want to live in the middle of San Francisco or buy luxury goods then sure, you need to strive to earn a lot of money, but that doesn't describe most people.
- scarface74 6y ago
  I don’t care about leaving things behind - I care about not being 70 years old and broke. The best case outcome is that we both spend our last penny when we are on our death bed.
joshspankit 6y ago
I mean based on the comment, presumably “making a positive change to the world”
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
I feel bad for people whose are trapped by a paycheck in a career they don't love. STEM delights me and if I became financially independent, I'd probably still go on learning about and building software & hardware just for the fun of it.
- non-entity 6y ago
  > I feel bad for people whose are trapped by a paycheck in a career they don't love. This is kinda of where I am right now. I still enjoy programming, but its becoming more and more apparent that I should have kept it as a hobby and pursued something else as a career.
- virgilp 6y ago
  > I'd probably still go on learning about and building software & hardware just for the fun of it. That's the thing - this is much easier to do when you're financially independent. If you have kids, and have to put them through school, and maybe have sick parents to care for - costs can add up fairly quickly; and it's easy to find yourself in a position where you can't lose your job, which is a lousy position to be in. Interesting part is - it can also be easier to choose what you work for when you have more money (or at least that's been my personal experience so far). A different version of the "rich getting richer" dynamic, basically - it's easy to say "no" to stupid things, to avoid or leave crappy jobs. Also if you're highly paid that often means you're listened to/ your voice has some weight - so chances of working on stuff that delights you increase significantly.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    To put it more succinctly. It’s nice to be in a position of F%%% you. (NSFW:Language) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI
- scarface74 6y ago
  I have been programming as a hobby since the 80s when I was in middle school writing 65C02 assembly, I don’t hate my job, but by the time I graduated in the mid 90s, it became purely a method to maintain my short term addiction to food and shelter and my long term desire not to be old and broke.
bpyne 6y ago
I enjoy learning about the industrial area I'm in (higher education). I enjoy creating software that people use daily. I enjoy creative problem solving. I enjoy learning how different organizations fulfill their reason for being while handling operational details. I go to work for these reasons, as well as, a comfortable pay. I don't mind working. I would just like to do it less. A few years ago I dropped to part-time in order to be in a grad program in CS. I found that 25 hours provided me with the perfect life balance.
vitro 6y ago
For a sense of an accomplishment and knowing that you have made world a bit better place while enjoying what you do, maybe? Japanese has a nice word for it, "Ikigai".
- redisman 6y ago
  Don't look to the Japanese for work-life balance though.

shuntress 6y ago

It's not specific to software development. Every field has people who's main focus is to "climb the ladder". Whether making a positive change to the world is in the front or back seat (or in the vehicle at all) will depend on company culture and may even differ within a single org.

ivanche 6y ago

Better financial situation * many, many years = freedom. You have to live like no one else until, one day, you'll live like no one else.

war1025 6y ago
Sounds like the whole Mexican fisherman story. I make good money. I work 10am-5pm every day. I don't make as much money as people who are more career oriented. But I also save 50% of my paycheck even factoring in that I have a wife and three kids, and my wife stays home with them. What's the point of chasing more money? If anything, I'd like to scale back, but that's not the easiest thing to do.