4 ms·

> Given that the disease has only been around for a matter of months, we might not yet know what long-term damage COVID-19 can cause Statements like this, are

> Given that the disease has only been around for a matter of months, we might not yet know what long-term damage COVID-19 can cause Statements like this, are quite disingenuous, especially when taken out of context. Using qualifiers like "Might" and "can" in the same sentence is par for the course for the propaganda I have seen over the past few months. Headlines and reports are repleat with what ifs and every sci-fi pathogen trope you can read. Coronaviruses are not new to science. Pick any pathogen and take the rare cases of odd symptoms and spread it on every network. See how the public reacts. Give me science! Few if any of our politicians are going on stage talking up the need for randomized studies. They scare us and we panic.

Darkphibre 6y ago
There is a LOT of anecdotal evidence COVID affects the neural system (it's even been found there during autopsies). The challenge for scientists is they need to raise the concerns during emergencies before the final 99.999% confidence 3-year double-blind studies are completed. So they couch their terms in language that allows for understanding the lack of absolutes.
- ghastmaster 6y ago
  As an example, one of the patients had a fever for 14 days and began doing odd things. This is not new or unique to covid. Long fever alone causes a whole host of problems. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944485/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944485/ > Neurological and cognitive dysfunction may occur acutely after an episode of hyperthermia and may lead to chronic damage, reported to occur in 50 % of survivors discharged from an ICU after heatstroke [87]. The pathophysiological mechanisms are presumed to be similar to those described above, but, in addition, the integrity of the BBB is disrupted allowing translocation of systemic toxins to enter the cerebral circulation. If neurological symptoms fail to improve after the acute episode, cerebellar dysfunction predominates. This is thought to be a result of the sensitivity of the Purkinje cells to thermal damage.
  - autoexec 6y ago
    At this point we can also say that some people will need treatments which can cause long term problems for them, for example those needing lung transplants will be on immunosuppressants for the rest of their lives and can expect at least the same risks/limitations faced by others who've undergone transplant for other reasons.
oillio 6y ago
A nature article with 7 references from medical journals scientific enough for you? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01403-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01403-8 It is still too early for conclusive statements. However, it looks like there is more to this than fear mongering.
- ghastmaster 6y ago
  Are we talking about the article posted or the research it refers to?
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  Classification as fear mongering should depend on the frequency and harm caused. I tend to think that the reporting on these complications focuses on the fact that it can happen, without sufficient detail on how often, and how bad it is, and how often it happens in the absence of Covid-19. This information is necessary to inform people of how concerned they should be. Without it, readers are left up to their imagination. If covid has a 0.X% infection fatality rate, and a 0.0X% chance of a less severe complication, how much more concerned should the public be?
autoexec 6y ago
> Give me science! This is science. It's a review of the clinical data currently available and discussion of the findings as they relate to neurological damage. This isn't an attempt to scare you, it's preliminary steps to understand a new virus. Coronaviruses aren't new, but this one is and there's still much to be understood about how it's spread, what effects it has on the body, and how it can be treated. Normally this information wouldn't get this kind of exposure, but since we're in the middle of a global pandemic which has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in just a few months data is being shared as quickly and as widely as possible. This paper is nothing but a review of what's already being observed in some people who've been infected and a recommendation for additional research in this area all of which appears be entirely appropriate. It's not at all disingenuous to caution that the long term damage done by this new virus is unknown. Science isn't about guess work and assumptions, it's about the careful collection and analysis of data and right now we don't have any because not enough time has passed.
- ghastmaster 6y ago
  This is a news article with subjectively selected excerpts. My comment is regarding this.

Darkphibre 6y ago

There is a LOT of anecdotal evidence COVID affects the neural system (it's even been found there during autopsies). The challenge for scientists is they need to raise the concerns during emergencies before the final 99.999% confidence 3-year double-blind studies are completed. So they couch their terms in language that allows for understanding the lack of absolutes.

ghastmaster 6y ago
As an example, one of the patients had a fever for 14 days and began doing odd things. This is not new or unique to covid. Long fever alone causes a whole host of problems. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944485/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4944485/ > Neurological and cognitive dysfunction may occur acutely after an episode of hyperthermia and may lead to chronic damage, reported to occur in 50 % of survivors discharged from an ICU after heatstroke [87]. The pathophysiological mechanisms are presumed to be similar to those described above, but, in addition, the integrity of the BBB is disrupted allowing translocation of systemic toxins to enter the cerebral circulation. If neurological symptoms fail to improve after the acute episode, cerebellar dysfunction predominates. This is thought to be a result of the sensitivity of the Purkinje cells to thermal damage.
- autoexec 6y ago
  At this point we can also say that some people will need treatments which can cause long term problems for them, for example those needing lung transplants will be on immunosuppressants for the rest of their lives and can expect at least the same risks/limitations faced by others who've undergone transplant for other reasons.

oillio 6y ago

A nature article with 7 references from medical journals scientific enough for you? https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01403-8 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01403-8 It is still too early for conclusive statements. However, it looks like there is more to this than fear mongering.

ghastmaster 6y ago
Are we talking about the article posted or the research it refers to?
s1artibartfast 6y ago
Classification as fear mongering should depend on the frequency and harm caused. I tend to think that the reporting on these complications focuses on the fact that it can happen, without sufficient detail on how often, and how bad it is, and how often it happens in the absence of Covid-19. This information is necessary to inform people of how concerned they should be. Without it, readers are left up to their imagination. If covid has a 0.X% infection fatality rate, and a 0.0X% chance of a less severe complication, how much more concerned should the public be?

autoexec 6y ago

> Give me science! This is science. It's a review of the clinical data currently available and discussion of the findings as they relate to neurological damage. This isn't an attempt to scare you, it's preliminary steps to understand a new virus. Coronaviruses aren't new, but this one is and there's still much to be understood about how it's spread, what effects it has on the body, and how it can be treated. Normally this information wouldn't get this kind of exposure, but since we're in the middle of a global pandemic which has caused hundreds of thousands of deaths in just a few months data is being shared as quickly and as widely as possible. This paper is nothing but a review of what's already being observed in some people who've been infected and a recommendation for additional research in this area all of which appears be entirely appropriate. It's not at all disingenuous to caution that the long term damage done by this new virus is unknown. Science isn't about guess work and assumptions, it's about the careful collection and analysis of data and right now we don't have any because not enough time has passed.

ghastmaster 6y ago
This is a news article with subjectively selected excerpts. My comment is regarding this.