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Criticizing the Ayn Rand Institute for taking a PPP loan is flawed in the same way criticizing Ayn Rand herself for taking Social Security benefits during her r

Criticizing the Ayn Rand Institute for taking a PPP loan is flawed in the same way criticizing Ayn Rand herself for taking Social Security benefits during her retirement is flawed. In both cases, there are things the government forced upon Americans. You cannot avoid paying the taxes that fund social security without going to prison. In many cases, you could not avoid going to prison for keeping a non-essential business open through the pandemic. It's not a hypocritical endorsement of welfare expansion to simply take back from the state what they forcibly took away from you.

beaner 6y ago
I don't know why you'd be downvoted, this is absolutely right and explicitly what she believed. That if you've had something taken from you it is absolutely your right to take it back. To not would be self-sacrifice - for what? You can still argue that it shouldn't have been taken in the first place. It's consistent.
TrackerFF 6y ago
Did the government force it upon Americans, or did Americans democratically agree that this is the system they wanted? I know it's easy to throw around "force", but in the end, one lives in a democratic country.
- beaner 6y ago
  That the policy was arrived at democratically doesn't change the fact that if something is taken from you, it is morally consistent to take it back, while arguing that the policy of taking in the first place is wrong.
- thephyber 6y ago
  I think they are using "force" in the "the state has a monopoly on the use of force" sense. Also, I think it's fine to argue against the current state of laws. It's not as if we are actually a democracy (at the federal level, the founding fathers didn't give us any direct democracy tools and those who could vote were an elite subset of the population). Even today we suffer from bad laws drafted by special interests and voted into existence by those who accept campaign contributions from those who drafted the laws. There is little in the form of "direct democracy" in our current system of legislation.
- 1MachineElf 6y ago
  I see your point, but in let's face the fact that Ayn Rand has always railed against what she called "mob rule" - for her I suppose the ideal democracy is one where we vote with our money.
worik 6y ago
The intellectual pretzelism of this position is breath taking. I have been reading up on these people and the belief is that only those who oppose welfare and taxation are morally OK to take it. I will stop pointing out the astounding hypocrisy of the Randites when they accept that collective security is better than every dog for itself.

beaner 6y ago

I don't know why you'd be downvoted, this is absolutely right and explicitly what she believed. That if you've had something taken from you it is absolutely your right to take it back. To not would be self-sacrifice - for what? You can still argue that it shouldn't have been taken in the first place. It's consistent.

TrackerFF 6y ago

Did the government force it upon Americans, or did Americans democratically agree that this is the system they wanted? I know it's easy to throw around "force", but in the end, one lives in a democratic country.

beaner 6y ago
That the policy was arrived at democratically doesn't change the fact that if something is taken from you, it is morally consistent to take it back, while arguing that the policy of taking in the first place is wrong.
thephyber 6y ago
I think they are using "force" in the "the state has a monopoly on the use of force" sense. Also, I think it's fine to argue against the current state of laws. It's not as if we are actually a democracy (at the federal level, the founding fathers didn't give us any direct democracy tools and those who could vote were an elite subset of the population). Even today we suffer from bad laws drafted by special interests and voted into existence by those who accept campaign contributions from those who drafted the laws. There is little in the form of "direct democracy" in our current system of legislation.
1MachineElf 6y ago
I see your point, but in let's face the fact that Ayn Rand has always railed against what she called "mob rule" - for her I suppose the ideal democracy is one where we vote with our money.

worik 6y ago

The intellectual pretzelism of this position is breath taking. I have been reading up on these people and the belief is that only those who oppose welfare and taxation are morally OK to take it. I will stop pointing out the astounding hypocrisy of the Randites when they accept that collective security is better than every dog for itself.