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Taking that quote at face value: at the time, they trusted the Chinese authorities. This isn't terribly unreasonable. I think in retrospect we can say, yeah, th

Taking that quote at face value: at the time, they trusted the Chinese authorities. This isn't terribly unreasonable. I think in retrospect we can say, yeah, they obviously shouldn't have trusted the Chinese authorities then, and they definitely shouldn't trust them in the future. But at the time, the idea that trusting them was a bad idea was more a thing people said than something backed by solid evidence. Alas, sometimes large bureaucracies take a while to catch up with common sense. (See also, fax machines). There actually is solid, undeniable evidence now, which is great! Let's see how they apply that in the future.

loopz 6y ago
Do we have evidence though, still? Remember, this is a hoax, Right? Someone didn't listen to common sense and the available Intelligence also.
- TMWNN 6y ago
  >Do we have evidence though, still? Remember, this is a hoax, Right? Trump did not call COVID19 a hoax. He called what Democrats said about his administration's response to the pandemic a "hoax", akin to the "impeachment hoax" (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/29/joe-biden-trump-coronavirus-hoax-claim https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/29/joe-biden-trum...).
  - loopz 6y ago
    A somewhat fair point, but it was also mixed with poor choice of words and general inaccuracies at the time: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-re...
  - robotron 6y ago
    Are you saying there wasn't a campaign to call the virus a hoax?
smileypete 6y ago
'Health officials in Taipei said they alerted the WHO at the end of December about the risk of human-to-human transmission of the new virus but said its concerns were not passed on to other countries.' https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68 https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6... [paywalled - but going via a google search gets round it] 'Wuhan virus probably is spreading between people (2020-01-04) Wuhan officials also said on Friday that no evidence of human to human transmission has been found so far. But Ho said it is possible that the virus can be passed from person to person, and this is likely to have already happened in the Wuhan outbreak.' https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1500994-20200104.htm https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1500994-20200104.h... 'Wuhan pneumonia: what we know about the new virus and how you can stop yourself getting sick (2020-1-9) Dr Ho Pak-leung, from the University of Hong Kong, said the new coronavirus was believed to be spread through droplets. "The public should wear disposable surgical masks in crowded places," Ho said. "They should also clean their hands frequently." https://today.line.me/hk/article/Wuhan+pneumonia+what+we+know+about+the+new+virus+and+how+you+can+stop+yourself+getting+sick-PoWrD5 https://today.line.me/hk/article/Wuhan+pneumonia+what+we+kno... 'Q&A with HK microbiologist Yuen Kwok-yung who helped confirm coronavirus' human spread Tell us what you saw in Wuhan (on 17th Jan). Let me tell you what I think is the truth. All the places we visited in Wuhan looked like they were putting on a show. Whatever we asked them, they answered as if they had prepared hard with well-thought-out replies. However, Zhong Nanshan was extremely sharp - he kept asking follow-up questions, like: "Is there anything else?" "Are there any more cases?" "Is it really like you're saying, just that many cases?" Eventually, under pressure, they relented and told us it seemed that there was one patient in the neurosurgery department who had infected 14 medical workers. But they also said those medical staff had not had their diagnoses confirmed. ... We met a deputy-level national leader and officials from the National Health Commission. They were all quite frank. Our expert group reported that the situation was severe, and there must have been cases of human transmission, and that preventive measures needed to be taken immediately.' https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/exclusive-qa-with-hong-kong-microbiologist-yuen-kwok-yung-who-helped-confirm https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/exclusive-qa-wit...
- vonmoltke 6y ago
  > 'Health officials in Taipei said they alerted the WHO at the end of December about the risk of human-to-human transmission of the new virus but said its concerns were not passed on to other countries.' > https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68 https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6... The Guardian disagrees: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/18/caught-in-a-superpower-struggle-the-inside-story-of-the-whos-response-to-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/18/caught-in-a-su... > “Why did the WHO Ignore an email from Taiwanese health officials in late December alerting them to the possibility that coronvirus could be transmitted between humans?” the president asked in a tweet on Friday, echoing a claim made by Taipei. > However, the Taiwanese email appears to have made no such warning. It was sent from Taiwan’s CDC to its WHO liaison officer on 31 December, hours after the first official report of a cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan were published online. > According to the text provided to the Guardian, the email said: “News resources today indicate that at least seven, atypical pneumonia cases were reported in China.” > It restates the details of Chinese report, adding “I would greatly appreciate it if you have relevant information to share with us.” > The email did not contain new information, and certainly nothing about human-to-human transmission. The WHO had picked up the same report on the night of 30 December and was urgently seeking more information. On 1 January it activated its incident management support team, putting the organisation on an emergency footing. I feel like this whole "it said/it said" thing with all these various organizations and their shifting messages is going to take years, at least, to disentangle.
ajkdhcb2 6y ago
Taiwan did so well because they knew that Chinese authorities couldn't be trusted; and they shared their info with WHO that they suspected human-to-human transmission very early, only for it to be ignored. There was plenty of reason to not trust Chinese authorities, they have an obvious track record

loopz 6y ago

Do we have evidence though, still? Remember, this is a hoax, Right? Someone didn't listen to common sense and the available Intelligence also.

TMWNN 6y ago
>Do we have evidence though, still? Remember, this is a hoax, Right? Trump did not call COVID19 a hoax. He called what Democrats said about his administration's response to the pandemic a "hoax", akin to the "impeachment hoax" (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/29/joe-biden-trump-coronavirus-hoax-claim https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/29/joe-biden-trum...).
- loopz 6y ago
  A somewhat fair point, but it was also mixed with poor choice of words and general inaccuracies at the time: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-remark/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-coronavirus-rally-re...
- robotron 6y ago
  Are you saying there wasn't a campaign to call the virus a hoax?

smileypete 6y ago

'Health officials in Taipei said they alerted the WHO at the end of December about the risk of human-to-human transmission of the new virus but said its concerns were not passed on to other countries.' https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68 https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6... [paywalled - but going via a google search gets round it] 'Wuhan virus probably is spreading between people (2020-01-04) Wuhan officials also said on Friday that no evidence of human to human transmission has been found so far. But Ho said it is possible that the virus can be passed from person to person, and this is likely to have already happened in the Wuhan outbreak.' https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1500994-20200104.htm https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1500994-20200104.h... 'Wuhan pneumonia: what we know about the new virus and how you can stop yourself getting sick (2020-1-9) Dr Ho Pak-leung, from the University of Hong Kong, said the new coronavirus was believed to be spread through droplets. "The public should wear disposable surgical masks in crowded places," Ho said. "They should also clean their hands frequently." https://today.line.me/hk/article/Wuhan+pneumonia+what+we+know+about+the+new+virus+and+how+you+can+stop+yourself+getting+sick-PoWrD5 https://today.line.me/hk/article/Wuhan+pneumonia+what+we+kno... 'Q&A with HK microbiologist Yuen Kwok-yung who helped confirm coronavirus' human spread Tell us what you saw in Wuhan (on 17th Jan). Let me tell you what I think is the truth. All the places we visited in Wuhan looked like they were putting on a show. Whatever we asked them, they answered as if they had prepared hard with well-thought-out replies. However, Zhong Nanshan was extremely sharp - he kept asking follow-up questions, like: "Is there anything else?" "Are there any more cases?" "Is it really like you're saying, just that many cases?" Eventually, under pressure, they relented and told us it seemed that there was one patient in the neurosurgery department who had infected 14 medical workers. But they also said those medical staff had not had their diagnoses confirmed. ... We met a deputy-level national leader and officials from the National Health Commission. They were all quite frank. Our expert group reported that the situation was severe, and there must have been cases of human transmission, and that preventive measures needed to be taken immediately.' https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/exclusive-qa-with-hong-kong-microbiologist-yuen-kwok-yung-who-helped-confirm https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/exclusive-qa-wit...

vonmoltke 6y ago
> 'Health officials in Taipei said they alerted the WHO at the end of December about the risk of human-to-human transmission of the new virus but said its concerns were not passed on to other countries.' > https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68 https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6... The Guardian disagrees: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/18/caught-in-a-superpower-struggle-the-inside-story-of-the-whos-response-to-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/18/caught-in-a-su... > “Why did the WHO Ignore an email from Taiwanese health officials in late December alerting them to the possibility that coronvirus could be transmitted between humans?” the president asked in a tweet on Friday, echoing a claim made by Taipei. > However, the Taiwanese email appears to have made no such warning. It was sent from Taiwan’s CDC to its WHO liaison officer on 31 December, hours after the first official report of a cluster of pneumonia cases in Wuhan were published online. > According to the text provided to the Guardian, the email said: “News resources today indicate that at least seven, atypical pneumonia cases were reported in China.” > It restates the details of Chinese report, adding “I would greatly appreciate it if you have relevant information to share with us.” > The email did not contain new information, and certainly nothing about human-to-human transmission. The WHO had picked up the same report on the night of 30 December and was urgently seeking more information. On 1 January it activated its incident management support team, putting the organisation on an emergency footing. I feel like this whole "it said/it said" thing with all these various organizations and their shifting messages is going to take years, at least, to disentangle.

ajkdhcb2 6y ago

Taiwan did so well because they knew that Chinese authorities couldn't be trusted; and they shared their info with WHO that they suspected human-to-human transmission very early, only for it to be ignored. There was plenty of reason to not trust Chinese authorities, they have an obvious track record