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> Is up to you to prove that God is real and any bullshit a religion claims it's true. No, not really. You can choose to reject this information and call it un

by Alupis 6y ago

> Is up to you to prove that God is real and any bullshit a religion claims it's true. No, not really. You can choose to reject this information and call it untrue, but you have not proven anything either. All you've managed to do is assert you have a belief in some information that might be contradictory with someone else's. What you really have is nothing. The burden to prove something is not true is on the person claiming something is not true. In this case, there is no empirical test that can disprove the existence of a God or Gods, and thus religion. > Today if you belief in Zeus, Baco or Heraclite you are interned fast Last I checked, you can believe whatever you want in the US. Perhaps you're in another country though. > Any serious religious believer should be put into clinical custody and in the worst cases these people should be interned into an asylum with the rest of the mentally ill people. Religion is a lot of things. A moral compass, explanations for life events, explanations of the unknown, inspiration, community, etc. A lot of things we think we know today, will be disproven tomorrow. That's how science is supposed to work. Perhaps in 100 years all this "Global Warming All The Things" will be viewed like some sort of religion today. Perhaps not, we literally don't know what we don't know with a lot of these things. Lastly, I'm not religious in the slightest bit - but I do think being as hostile as you are here towards billions of people around the world is... unfortunate.

anthk 6y ago
>No, not really. You can choose to reject this information and call it untrue, but you have not proven anything either. You dont' have to. As they said, "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.". It's for justice, but it works for science too. Show evidence, or fuck off. Carl Sagan said that too, but with a mannered way. >Religion is a lot of things. A moral compass, explanations for life events, explanations of the unknown, inspiration, community, etc So what. It won't make it more real, or valid. Get into the facts and stop putting bullshit on top in order to avoid any debate. So is music and old tales for kids in order to behave well and these won't make any fairy tale more real.
- Alupis 6y ago
  To be pedantic... You are asserting/claiming religion is false. You are making the contentious claim. Burden of Proof sits squarely on the person making the contentious claim[1][2]. To support your claim, you must present evidence that argues your findings and position[2]. You have none of this. All you have is a contradictory belief, without evidence or supporting facts. This is partly why being Atheist is still considered a religion. It's a belief that there is no God, based on zero evidence or facts... just like all other religions. Lastly, you should consider curbing your language. You will be flagged and possibly banned if you continue to assault other members of HN in this way. We tolerate discourse here, not shouting and obscenities. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence#:~:text=Empirical%20evidence%20(in%20science),-Main%20article%3A%20Scientific&text=Scientific%20evidence%20usually%20goes%20towards,argue%20for%20their%20specific%20findings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence#:~:text=Empirical%20e....
  - metalliqaz 6y ago
    This is nonsense. The assertion comes from the religious. That there is a God and He is responsible for the life, the universe, and everything. Atheism isn't the belief that there is no God. It's the lack of belief in any God.
    - Alupis 6y ago
      > The assertion comes from the religious. Yes, religion does assert this, but that is also the defacto resting state for mankind. Allow me to explain: For nearly all of human history, certainly all of recorded human history, there has been a strong belief in a God or Gods. It's a relatively recent concept that there might not be a God. It is indisputable fact, that even today, in 2020, you are among the extreme minority of living people that do not believe in a God or Gods[1]. Therefore, being the newcomer, sporting a new assertion that there is no God, you must provide evidence to support this contentious claim. Since you cannot provide any evidence, and since no evidence currently exists to support this contentious claim, all you have left is a contradictory belief. > Atheism isn't the belief that there is no God. It's the lack of belief in any God. It is true one definition of Atheism is the absence of belief in a God. It becomes a belief when an assertion is made such as "God does not exist", because of the lack of evidence to support this claim[2]. That is the belief there is no God, because you have no empirical evidence to support your belief. Belief means "confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof"[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations [2] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/belief https://www.dictionary.com/browse/belief
stan_rogers 6y ago
Positive claims bear the burden of proof. Not believing a God or gods exist is the null hypothesis. There is no need to prove that a God or gods do not exist; there is a need to prove its/their existence. Why do people have trouble understanding that?
- Alupis 6y ago
  > Positive claims bear the burden of proof Citation please.
  - joubert 6y ago
    A unicorn created the universe.
    - Alupis 6y ago
      That's kind of the point though. You are free to believe whatever you want. If I come along and assert you're wrong for believing that, I must prove why. Otherwise, I'm just rejecting your belief and inserting my own belief.
      - stan_rogers 6y ago
        No, not at all. You're free to believe what you want, but the moment you expect me to believe it as well, you need to give me a reason to believe it. If there's no reason to believe you, then there's no reason to believe you. Or to allow you to regulate anyone else's life according to your beliefs. Or to allow you to teach your nonsense to children in place of verifiable facts.
- ars 6y ago
  The world exists and we know that you can not create something from nothing. Therefore the null hypothesis is actually that the world was created by something. To claim that the universe was created by nothing requires pretty enormous evidence, which presently does not exist.

by Alupis 6y ago

anthk 6y ago

>No, not really. You can choose to reject this information and call it untrue, but you have not proven anything either. You dont' have to. As they said, "the necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges.". It's for justice, but it works for science too. Show evidence, or fuck off. Carl Sagan said that too, but with a mannered way. >Religion is a lot of things. A moral compass, explanations for life events, explanations of the unknown, inspiration, community, etc So what. It won't make it more real, or valid. Get into the facts and stop putting bullshit on top in order to avoid any debate. So is music and old tales for kids in order to behave well and these won't make any fairy tale more real.

Alupis 6y ago
To be pedantic... You are asserting/claiming religion is false. You are making the contentious claim. Burden of Proof sits squarely on the person making the contentious claim[1][2]. To support your claim, you must present evidence that argues your findings and position[2]. You have none of this. All you have is a contradictory belief, without evidence or supporting facts. This is partly why being Atheist is still considered a religion. It's a belief that there is no God, based on zero evidence or facts... just like all other religions. Lastly, you should consider curbing your language. You will be flagged and possibly banned if you continue to assault other members of HN in this way. We tolerate discourse here, not shouting and obscenities. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence#:~:text=Empirical%20evidence%20(in%20science),-Main%20article%3A%20Scientific&text=Scientific%20evidence%20usually%20goes%20towards,argue%20for%20their%20specific%20findings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence#:~:text=Empirical%20e....
- metalliqaz 6y ago
  This is nonsense. The assertion comes from the religious. That there is a God and He is responsible for the life, the universe, and everything. Atheism isn't the belief that there is no God. It's the lack of belief in any God.
  - Alupis 6y ago
    > The assertion comes from the religious. Yes, religion does assert this, but that is also the defacto resting state for mankind. Allow me to explain: For nearly all of human history, certainly all of recorded human history, there has been a strong belief in a God or Gods. It's a relatively recent concept that there might not be a God. It is indisputable fact, that even today, in 2020, you are among the extreme minority of living people that do not believe in a God or Gods[1]. Therefore, being the newcomer, sporting a new assertion that there is no God, you must provide evidence to support this contentious claim. Since you cannot provide any evidence, and since no evidence currently exists to support this contentious claim, all you have left is a contradictory belief. > Atheism isn't the belief that there is no God. It's the lack of belief in any God. It is true one definition of Atheism is the absence of belief in a God. It becomes a belief when an assertion is made such as "God does not exist", because of the lack of evidence to support this claim[2]. That is the belief there is no God, because you have no empirical evidence to support your belief. Belief means "confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof"[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations [2] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/belief https://www.dictionary.com/browse/belief

stan_rogers 6y ago

Positive claims bear the burden of proof. Not believing a God or gods exist is the null hypothesis. There is no need to prove that a God or gods do not exist; there is a need to prove its/their existence. Why do people have trouble understanding that?

Alupis 6y ago
> Positive claims bear the burden of proof Citation please.
- joubert 6y ago
  A unicorn created the universe.
  - Alupis 6y ago
    That's kind of the point though. You are free to believe whatever you want. If I come along and assert you're wrong for believing that, I must prove why. Otherwise, I'm just rejecting your belief and inserting my own belief.
    - stan_rogers 6y ago
      No, not at all. You're free to believe what you want, but the moment you expect me to believe it as well, you need to give me a reason to believe it. If there's no reason to believe you, then there's no reason to believe you. Or to allow you to regulate anyone else's life according to your beliefs. Or to allow you to teach your nonsense to children in place of verifiable facts.
ars 6y ago
The world exists and we know that you can not create something from nothing. Therefore the null hypothesis is actually that the world was created by something. To claim that the universe was created by nothing requires pretty enormous evidence, which presently does not exist.