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> but let's not forget the non-material nature of software allows this, hardware will always be a physical (material) artifact. Sort of? I tried to get into F

> but let's not forget the non-material nature of software allows this, hardware will always be a physical (material) artifact. Sort of? I tried to get into FPGA programming a while ago, and it turns out the entire software stack to get from an idea in my brain to a blinking LED on a dev board is hot garbage. First of all, it's insanely expensive, and second of all, it really, really sucks. Like how is it <current year> (I forgot what year it was, but it was 2016-2018 timeframe) and you've tried to reinvent the IDE and failed? I think projects like RISC-V and J Core are super cool, but I couldn't possibly even attempt to contribute to them based on how awful the process is.

aswanson 6y ago
Same. Started off in love w FPGA design in college. Software design is light-years ahead of that area in terms of tool maturity, functionality and freedom.
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HansHamster 6y ago
Check out IceStorm (+Yosys, nextpnr...) for a pretty complete open source toolchain for ice40 FPGAs. It's really amazing to go from the infuriating to use vendor tools with all their quirks and bugs to a single 'make' that just generates the bitfile without using the broken IDE or complaining about licenses... The FPGAs are also relatively inexpensive (<5-10€ in single quantities depending on the model) but are on the lower end in terms of features and performance. The tools should also support the more powerful ECP5 FPGAs, but I haven't tried them yet.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Interesting, thank you for the pointer. I've been playing around with FPGAs a bit and this sounds like it might just be what I was looking for. Is there any starter board that you'd recommend for this workflow?
  - HansHamster 6y ago
    I've only used the bare chips on custom boards, so I have no experience with the eval boards. A popular board a few years ago was the iCEstick for about 20€, but I can't find it anywhere for that price now. The ICE40 breakout boards from Lattice are also more expensive now for whatever reason. Olimex has a board with the HX8K that is more reasonably priced, but unfortunately doesn't have an onboard programmer... For the ECP5, the ULX3S board looks interesting. It's not exactly cheap, but also has more features than just buttons, LEDs, and pin headers like on the other boards.

aswanson 6y ago

Same. Started off in love w FPGA design in college. Software design is light-years ahead of that area in terms of tool maturity, functionality and freedom.

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HansHamster 6y ago

Check out IceStorm (+Yosys, nextpnr...) for a pretty complete open source toolchain for ice40 FPGAs. It's really amazing to go from the infuriating to use vendor tools with all their quirks and bugs to a single 'make' that just generates the bitfile without using the broken IDE or complaining about licenses... The FPGAs are also relatively inexpensive (<5-10€ in single quantities depending on the model) but are on the lower end in terms of features and performance. The tools should also support the more powerful ECP5 FPGAs, but I haven't tried them yet.

jacquesm 6y ago
Interesting, thank you for the pointer. I've been playing around with FPGAs a bit and this sounds like it might just be what I was looking for. Is there any starter board that you'd recommend for this workflow?
- HansHamster 6y ago
  I've only used the bare chips on custom boards, so I have no experience with the eval boards. A popular board a few years ago was the iCEstick for about 20€, but I can't find it anywhere for that price now. The ICE40 breakout boards from Lattice are also more expensive now for whatever reason. Olimex has a board with the HX8K that is more reasonably priced, but unfortunately doesn't have an onboard programmer... For the ECP5, the ULX3S board looks interesting. It's not exactly cheap, but also has more features than just buttons, LEDs, and pin headers like on the other boards.