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Games that create a completely new genre (in this case, Real-Time Strategy) are rare. Dune II is the even-more rare case of a new genre being created at the sam

Games that create a completely new genre (in this case, Real-Time Strategy) are rare. Dune II is the even-more rare case of a new genre being created at the same time as the game itself being quite excellent and popular at the same time. I've fond childhood memories of playing this for many hours. Great game!

subsubzero 6y ago
I have the same fond memories of this game. I fell in love with the books and was amazed at how great a game it was. Played it over and over with all the different houses and their strengths and weaknesses. Such a anomaly that a movie/book based game was that well put together.
- stevenwoo 6y ago
  The little cartoon animated heads in the cut scenes was pretty cool for the time, and I remember trying different exploits on the last level just to see what could work, iirc expanding your base/towers over the cpu bases was the only way I could stop the harkonnen from respawning.(when I was house atreides)
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Ah, I loved that trick, building concrete roadway with towers right in front of enemy production buildings!
jandrese 6y ago
I remember coming to it a bit later and being annoyed by several aspects of the game, even though it was obviously groundbreaking. In particular I remember my units just sitting around allowing themselves to be shot by enemy units that had longer range instead of moving two meters to get in weapons range. I recall it wasn't good at letting you form groups and issue mass commands too. C&C and especially Warcraft really nailed the UI and gameplay details for the RTS genre a couple of years later.
- forgotmypwbctbi 6y ago
  i played through d2 before c&c and loved it. after c&c, same feelings as you. context...
- tnecniv 6y ago
  Indeed. I think the original C&C is still pretty playable. It might not be fun after a few levels compared to a modern RTS, but all they core elements of the modern game are there. Dune II does not hold up in the same way (and I love the source material). Not being able to select multiple units at once is alone a game breaker.
  - davedx 6y ago
    > Not being able to select multiple units at once is alone a game breaker. Well, it's really not, because the game was fantastic and a lot of people enjoyed playing it. Game breaking would have been if when you played against another player they had multi select and you didn't. Modern RTS players get very good at issuing actions to many specific units individually at high speed, it's an acknowledged skill today. If your only strategy is a mass siege tank zerg, then yeah, no multi select is a little bit inconvenient.
    - tunap 6y ago
      You could always target a string of consecutive units and send the leader to (x) and the rest would follow. And get picked off 1 by 1 if you forgot about them long enough.
      - jandrese 6y ago
        However, if the leader stopped when he got in weapons range the rest of the units would just sit back there and watch him fight. Westwood learned some lessons from Dune 2 that made Command and Conquer much better to play. I'm a bit surprised there isn't a remake of Dune 2 out there that fixes the UI quibbles and updates the graphics. There was a lot of neat stuff in the game (it was surprisingly feature rich for being basically the first of its genre) but few people these days remember it. Maybe someone will get the rights for a remake when the new movie comes out? Sadly Westwood is buried out back in the EA studio graveyard.
hyperpl 6y ago
I agree. It was one of my favorites growing up. I remember being blown away when I installed my first ISA SB16. I didn't realize this game was ported to Mega Drive. Must be awkward trying to control the cursor with a gamepad having grown up playing these games using a mouse.
- robin_reala 6y ago
  There was a Mega Mouse accessory that was supported by various games, but it doesn’t look like Dune is one of them (http://web.archive.org/web/20120304195213/http://my.execpc.com/~krieg/links/sega.lib http://web.archive.org/web/20120304195213/http://my.execpc.c...)
- ahefner 6y ago
  I grew up playing Dune II on PC and finally played the Sega version a few years ago. I found it surprisingly playable - one of the controller buttons makes the cursor zip around at warp speed, and this works better than you'd expect. I'd only tried the game out of curiosity, but ended up finishing a full campaign.
RangerScience 6y ago
Wait, Dune II was the start of the RTS genre? That's amazing.
- petercooper 6y ago
  Start of the genre really, but not strictly the "first RTS" which was probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei .. the term RTS was coined for Dune II, however, and it was the first popular such game.
  - inetknght 6y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ancient_Art_of_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ancient_Art_of_War > published by Broderbund in 1984. It is generally recognized as one of the first real-time strategy or real-time tactics games.
    - kbenson 6y ago
      That's definitely the oldest I've seen. From the videos, it definitely qualifies as well. There doesn't appear to be resource management (but that's not required, some Warcraft maps don't even have that), and it can be played with two separate timescales, where you go to a separate battle real-time tactics, but apparently that's optional and you can let the unit battle come to a conclusion without ever leaving the overhead map and timescale.
    - drivers99 6y ago
      That’s older than the one I was going to post, but probably still of interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem_Wars
      - zentiggr 6y ago
        I had a fantastic time with Modem Wars solo... I can't say I learned any football tactics but I got a taste of what the "jocks" were enjoying out on the field, in a convenient wargaming package :) /s
Grimm665 6y ago
This is why I felt bad for the PUBG devs, who seemed to have successfully pushed the Battle Royale genre with a game that wasn't perfect but that they put a lot of effort into, only to be outsold in days by Fortnite upon its release.
- skocznymroczny 6y ago
  Arguably, DayZ was the first to popularize the battle royale genre.
- jcranmer 6y ago
  > only to be outsold in days by Fortnite upon its release. I'm not sure it was days, but the part that's kind of galling is that Fortnite was a wave defense game that had some pretty lackluster reviews, so the developers instead turned it into a battle royale game because of PUBG's unexpected popularity, and it was the battle royale version that made waves.
  - coralreef 6y ago
    The fact that it was free was important in its popularity as well, where PUBG still retails for $15 USD today (on sale)
- kbenson 6y ago
  Given that PUBG has apparently sold 50 million copies across PC and Xbox (as of two years ago!)[1], and the amount of time and effort that goes into Fortnite continuously to keep it fresh and the people playing it happy, I'm not sure that PUBG hasn't payed a higher dividend on investment percentage-wise, even if it's of lower total amount. Bottom line, I'm not really really feeling bad for PUBG at all. It's kind of like feeling bad for Minecraft because a lot of people are playing Fortnite now. Minecraft made most its money on the purchase. There's some loss in future revenue because of the network effect, but they probably made most the money they were going to make from you already (and to bring it back to PUBG, it's not for everyone. I didn't let my currently 10 year old son play it, but I let him play Fortnite, even a year ago when this was a discussion). 1: https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/19/17478476/playerunknowns-battlegrounds-sales-pubg-number-of-players https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/19/17478476/playerunknowns-ba...
blondin 6y ago
played it on the sega genesis first!! before i even knew a pc version existed. the soundtrack and the sound effects were particularly amazing to me. i can still remember most of them clearly in my head after all these years... "yes sir, moving on!" "construction complete" "reporting... acknowledged!" this game inspired command and conquer in my opinion!
- bloopernova 6y ago
  Ah, so many great feelings associated with those sounds! tssssh! "reporting!" tssssh! "acknowledged!" is still in my head sometimes. I love the simplicity of it, too. Newer RTS games seem to pile on the complexity to try to differentiate themselves from the crowd.
  - scoutt 6y ago
    > great feelings I also remember the panic after "warning, wormsign", trying to locate and move my harvesters.
cosmodisk 6y ago
It's an absolutely fantastic game,I did spend a fair share of my time playing it.
wyldfire 6y ago
After spending so much time playing turn-based RPGs and some turn-based strategy, for some reason I just couldn't handle the pressure of RTS. Playing Dune II felt like it was too much burden to manage -- I really liked to take my time to analyze every move in those turn-based games. This was the exact opposite: I had to execute! I didn't bother with RTSs until I tried out "C&C: Generals" and really found out what I was missing. I think I realized then what my friends were trying to get me to see when they hyped Dune II. I did play it enough that we all get a kick out of saying "No more Ornis? :(" to one another.
- malux85 6y ago
  I’m just getting into turn based RPGs (and don’t mind older graphics or having to run emulators). I also like to take the time to plan between moves and find the pressure of real-time unenjoyable. Can you recommend a few of your favourites please? :)
  - b3lvedere 6y ago
    OpenRA https://www.openra.net/ https://www.openra.net/ (Free, but a little big buggy) WarFare Incorporated: http://www.warfareincorporated.com/index.html http://www.warfareincorporated.com/index.html (IOS, Free) https://play.warfareincorporated.com/ https://play.warfareincorporated.com/ (Web Only) Command and Conquered Remastered: https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/1213210/ https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/1213210/ Oh sorry, thought you wanted RTS instead of RPG. :)
  - wyldfire 6y ago
    Well, I was probably around 12 when I played these, so sometimes revisiting old stuff turns out to be not as great as I remembered. But "Bard's Tale" and "Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday" were really enjoyable at the time. "Eye of the Beholder" was not quite turn-based but it seemed like it had a slower pace than newer games do. Those were all PC titles. But "Phantasy Star II" I played on the Genesis and that was awesome. I tuned out of most gaming before "X-COM" and "Fallout" showed up but I hear from my friends that they continue a interesting gameplay type similar to Buck Rogers.

subsubzero 6y ago

I have the same fond memories of this game. I fell in love with the books and was amazed at how great a game it was. Played it over and over with all the different houses and their strengths and weaknesses. Such a anomaly that a movie/book based game was that well put together.

stevenwoo 6y ago
The little cartoon animated heads in the cut scenes was pretty cool for the time, and I remember trying different exploits on the last level just to see what could work, iirc expanding your base/towers over the cpu bases was the only way I could stop the harkonnen from respawning.(when I was house atreides)
- hef19898 6y ago
  Ah, I loved that trick, building concrete roadway with towers right in front of enemy production buildings!

jandrese 6y ago

I remember coming to it a bit later and being annoyed by several aspects of the game, even though it was obviously groundbreaking. In particular I remember my units just sitting around allowing themselves to be shot by enemy units that had longer range instead of moving two meters to get in weapons range. I recall it wasn't good at letting you form groups and issue mass commands too. C&C and especially Warcraft really nailed the UI and gameplay details for the RTS genre a couple of years later.

forgotmypwbctbi 6y ago
i played through d2 before c&c and loved it. after c&c, same feelings as you. context...
tnecniv 6y ago
Indeed. I think the original C&C is still pretty playable. It might not be fun after a few levels compared to a modern RTS, but all they core elements of the modern game are there. Dune II does not hold up in the same way (and I love the source material). Not being able to select multiple units at once is alone a game breaker.
- davedx 6y ago
  > Not being able to select multiple units at once is alone a game breaker. Well, it's really not, because the game was fantastic and a lot of people enjoyed playing it. Game breaking would have been if when you played against another player they had multi select and you didn't. Modern RTS players get very good at issuing actions to many specific units individually at high speed, it's an acknowledged skill today. If your only strategy is a mass siege tank zerg, then yeah, no multi select is a little bit inconvenient.
  - tunap 6y ago
    You could always target a string of consecutive units and send the leader to (x) and the rest would follow. And get picked off 1 by 1 if you forgot about them long enough.
    - jandrese 6y ago
      However, if the leader stopped when he got in weapons range the rest of the units would just sit back there and watch him fight. Westwood learned some lessons from Dune 2 that made Command and Conquer much better to play. I'm a bit surprised there isn't a remake of Dune 2 out there that fixes the UI quibbles and updates the graphics. There was a lot of neat stuff in the game (it was surprisingly feature rich for being basically the first of its genre) but few people these days remember it. Maybe someone will get the rights for a remake when the new movie comes out? Sadly Westwood is buried out back in the EA studio graveyard.

hyperpl 6y ago

I agree. It was one of my favorites growing up. I remember being blown away when I installed my first ISA SB16. I didn't realize this game was ported to Mega Drive. Must be awkward trying to control the cursor with a gamepad having grown up playing these games using a mouse.

robin_reala 6y ago
There was a Mega Mouse accessory that was supported by various games, but it doesn’t look like Dune is one of them (http://web.archive.org/web/20120304195213/http://my.execpc.com/~krieg/links/sega.lib http://web.archive.org/web/20120304195213/http://my.execpc.c...)
ahefner 6y ago
I grew up playing Dune II on PC and finally played the Sega version a few years ago. I found it surprisingly playable - one of the controller buttons makes the cursor zip around at warp speed, and this works better than you'd expect. I'd only tried the game out of curiosity, but ended up finishing a full campaign.

RangerScience 6y ago

Wait, Dune II was the start of the RTS genre? That's amazing.

petercooper 6y ago
Start of the genre really, but not strictly the "first RTS" which was probably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei .. the term RTS was coined for Dune II, however, and it was the first popular such game.
- inetknght 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ancient_Art_of_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ancient_Art_of_War > published by Broderbund in 1984. It is generally recognized as one of the first real-time strategy or real-time tactics games.
  - kbenson 6y ago
    That's definitely the oldest I've seen. From the videos, it definitely qualifies as well. There doesn't appear to be resource management (but that's not required, some Warcraft maps don't even have that), and it can be played with two separate timescales, where you go to a separate battle real-time tactics, but apparently that's optional and you can let the unit battle come to a conclusion without ever leaving the overhead map and timescale.
  - drivers99 6y ago
    That’s older than the one I was going to post, but probably still of interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem_Wars
    - zentiggr 6y ago
      I had a fantastic time with Modem Wars solo... I can't say I learned any football tactics but I got a taste of what the "jocks" were enjoying out on the field, in a convenient wargaming package :) /s

Grimm665 6y ago

This is why I felt bad for the PUBG devs, who seemed to have successfully pushed the Battle Royale genre with a game that wasn't perfect but that they put a lot of effort into, only to be outsold in days by Fortnite upon its release.

skocznymroczny 6y ago
Arguably, DayZ was the first to popularize the battle royale genre.
jcranmer 6y ago
> only to be outsold in days by Fortnite upon its release. I'm not sure it was days, but the part that's kind of galling is that Fortnite was a wave defense game that had some pretty lackluster reviews, so the developers instead turned it into a battle royale game because of PUBG's unexpected popularity, and it was the battle royale version that made waves.
- coralreef 6y ago
  The fact that it was free was important in its popularity as well, where PUBG still retails for $15 USD today (on sale)
kbenson 6y ago
Given that PUBG has apparently sold 50 million copies across PC and Xbox (as of two years ago!)[1], and the amount of time and effort that goes into Fortnite continuously to keep it fresh and the people playing it happy, I'm not sure that PUBG hasn't payed a higher dividend on investment percentage-wise, even if it's of lower total amount. Bottom line, I'm not really really feeling bad for PUBG at all. It's kind of like feeling bad for Minecraft because a lot of people are playing Fortnite now. Minecraft made most its money on the purchase. There's some loss in future revenue because of the network effect, but they probably made most the money they were going to make from you already (and to bring it back to PUBG, it's not for everyone. I didn't let my currently 10 year old son play it, but I let him play Fortnite, even a year ago when this was a discussion). 1: https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/19/17478476/playerunknowns-battlegrounds-sales-pubg-number-of-players https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/19/17478476/playerunknowns-ba...

blondin 6y ago

played it on the sega genesis first!! before i even knew a pc version existed. the soundtrack and the sound effects were particularly amazing to me. i can still remember most of them clearly in my head after all these years... "yes sir, moving on!" "construction complete" "reporting... acknowledged!" this game inspired command and conquer in my opinion!

bloopernova 6y ago
Ah, so many great feelings associated with those sounds! tssssh! "reporting!" tssssh! "acknowledged!" is still in my head sometimes. I love the simplicity of it, too. Newer RTS games seem to pile on the complexity to try to differentiate themselves from the crowd.
- scoutt 6y ago
  > great feelings I also remember the panic after "warning, wormsign", trying to locate and move my harvesters.

cosmodisk 6y ago

It's an absolutely fantastic game,I did spend a fair share of my time playing it.

wyldfire 6y ago

After spending so much time playing turn-based RPGs and some turn-based strategy, for some reason I just couldn't handle the pressure of RTS. Playing Dune II felt like it was too much burden to manage -- I really liked to take my time to analyze every move in those turn-based games. This was the exact opposite: I had to execute! I didn't bother with RTSs until I tried out "C&C: Generals" and really found out what I was missing. I think I realized then what my friends were trying to get me to see when they hyped Dune II. I did play it enough that we all get a kick out of saying "No more Ornis? :(" to one another.

malux85 6y ago
I’m just getting into turn based RPGs (and don’t mind older graphics or having to run emulators). I also like to take the time to plan between moves and find the pressure of real-time unenjoyable. Can you recommend a few of your favourites please? :)
- b3lvedere 6y ago
  OpenRA https://www.openra.net/ https://www.openra.net/ (Free, but a little big buggy) WarFare Incorporated: http://www.warfareincorporated.com/index.html http://www.warfareincorporated.com/index.html (IOS, Free) https://play.warfareincorporated.com/ https://play.warfareincorporated.com/ (Web Only) Command and Conquered Remastered: https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/1213210/ https://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/1213210/ Oh sorry, thought you wanted RTS instead of RPG. :)
- wyldfire 6y ago
  Well, I was probably around 12 when I played these, so sometimes revisiting old stuff turns out to be not as great as I remembered. But "Bard's Tale" and "Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday" were really enjoyable at the time. "Eye of the Beholder" was not quite turn-based but it seemed like it had a slower pace than newer games do. Those were all PC titles. But "Phantasy Star II" I played on the Genesis and that was awesome. I tuned out of most gaming before "X-COM" and "Fallout" showed up but I hear from my friends that they continue a interesting gameplay type similar to Buck Rogers.