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This is now the second article or so on the HN front page that attempts a vigorous defense of free speech but then immediately undermines that by spending ink o

This is now the second article or so on the HN front page that attempts a vigorous defense of free speech but then immediately undermines that by spending ink on Trump. Modern conservatives aren't responsible for cancel culture and elected Trump precisely as a counter-reaction to cancel culture. The attempt to unify progressives and classical liberals is weird to me, as I see the far left evolving into something resembling a puritanical religion. If you want a moderate middle of the road that respects all sides of debate and discussion, then center-right and center-left should unify against the extremes. Nothing else will work, in my opinion.

deleted 6y ago
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michaelcampbell 6y ago
> Modern conservatives aren't responsible for cancel culture and elected Trump precisely as a counter-reaction to cancel culture. I'd like to see some data behind this assertion. Even what proportion of Trump voters used "anti cancel culture" as even ONE of, if not the main, reason why. Vs. "not hillary", or he was the name on the Republican side of the ballot, or "he says what he thinks" or "the wall"
- diffrinse 6y ago
  On election night I recall the CNN anchors interviewing voters and getting "He's a straight shooter"/"honest" a whole lot. What's ironic about America is that working class White and Black folk are both weary of white-collar professionals telling them what to do. Strangely, neither group thinks of businessmen or other instances of rich people as white-collar (both groups express veneration for the "businessman"/"hustler"), as somehow closer to themselves and values than middle-class professionals (like Obama). Class underwrites so much in this country, but because class discussion has largely and for the most part been verboten since the 50s, we instead get this weird conflation of race and class. This gets even more interesting when you realize Official BLM is just the bourgeois representation of working-class Black interests and there are many many YouTube videos of those Black interests expressing exactly that[0]. Of course, people think all Black people must be one big monolith, both owing to de facto segregation and the loudest minority problem, (they simply don't know enough Black people) because that's what Bourgeois profiteers want you to think; just like how people still actually think there was an clear, firm relationship between the protests and the riots, as much as protesters want to claim there is in order to hold some vague threat of further violence when they in all likelihood were not also the ones doing the rioting and vice versa. [0] Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9YcB1pJ69A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9YcB1pJ69A
floren 6y ago
> This is now the second article or so on the HN front page that attempts a vigorous defense of free speech but then immediately undermines that by spending ink on Trump. You have to establish your bona fides up front ("Trump's real bad, hell, he might declare himself dictator if he loses the election!!!") before saying this sort of thing, as a sort of preemptive defense against getting called a Nazi.
cycomanic 6y ago
I strongly disagree with the assessment of Trump as a Conservative. He is a populist fascist who wants to be a dictator. The scary thing is that the republican party with the exception of one individual (and look how the republican establishment treated him for it) is supporting him unconditionally. Regarding, cancel culture is not a thing used by the right,. Rubbish see the calls from conservatives when someone does not support the troops enough or "disrespect the flag" or similar, let's not even get to the actively inciting violence against people who disagree coming from Trump and supporters. As a side note US politics from an outside perspective sits between centre right, right (democrats) to extreme right (GOP), with a couple of centre left voices (Sanders, AOC).
- bananaface 6y ago
  If you think Trump wants power but AOC doesn't, your emotional radar is broken. Sanders is one of the few politicians I'd describe as driven by anything other than power.

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michaelcampbell 6y ago

> Modern conservatives aren't responsible for cancel culture and elected Trump precisely as a counter-reaction to cancel culture. I'd like to see some data behind this assertion. Even what proportion of Trump voters used "anti cancel culture" as even ONE of, if not the main, reason why. Vs. "not hillary", or he was the name on the Republican side of the ballot, or "he says what he thinks" or "the wall"

diffrinse 6y ago
On election night I recall the CNN anchors interviewing voters and getting "He's a straight shooter"/"honest" a whole lot. What's ironic about America is that working class White and Black folk are both weary of white-collar professionals telling them what to do. Strangely, neither group thinks of businessmen or other instances of rich people as white-collar (both groups express veneration for the "businessman"/"hustler"), as somehow closer to themselves and values than middle-class professionals (like Obama). Class underwrites so much in this country, but because class discussion has largely and for the most part been verboten since the 50s, we instead get this weird conflation of race and class. This gets even more interesting when you realize Official BLM is just the bourgeois representation of working-class Black interests and there are many many YouTube videos of those Black interests expressing exactly that[0]. Of course, people think all Black people must be one big monolith, both owing to de facto segregation and the loudest minority problem, (they simply don't know enough Black people) because that's what Bourgeois profiteers want you to think; just like how people still actually think there was an clear, firm relationship between the protests and the riots, as much as protesters want to claim there is in order to hold some vague threat of further violence when they in all likelihood were not also the ones doing the rioting and vice versa. [0] Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9YcB1pJ69A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9YcB1pJ69A

floren 6y ago

> This is now the second article or so on the HN front page that attempts a vigorous defense of free speech but then immediately undermines that by spending ink on Trump. You have to establish your bona fides up front ("Trump's real bad, hell, he might declare himself dictator if he loses the election!!!") before saying this sort of thing, as a sort of preemptive defense against getting called a Nazi.

cycomanic 6y ago

I strongly disagree with the assessment of Trump as a Conservative. He is a populist fascist who wants to be a dictator. The scary thing is that the republican party with the exception of one individual (and look how the republican establishment treated him for it) is supporting him unconditionally. Regarding, cancel culture is not a thing used by the right,. Rubbish see the calls from conservatives when someone does not support the troops enough or "disrespect the flag" or similar, let's not even get to the actively inciting violence against people who disagree coming from Trump and supporters. As a side note US politics from an outside perspective sits between centre right, right (democrats) to extreme right (GOP), with a couple of centre left voices (Sanders, AOC).

bananaface 6y ago
If you think Trump wants power but AOC doesn't, your emotional radar is broken. Sanders is one of the few politicians I'd describe as driven by anything other than power.