4 ms·

Foreign students can only take 1 online class at our institution due to current policy. When we scrambled to move all online during the stay-home orders, one qu

Foreign students can only take 1 online class at our institution due to current policy. When we scrambled to move all online during the stay-home orders, one question we didn't have answered was whether or not those students could even stay if we went entirely online. The policy didn't change at all, it's super restrictive. What institutions I'm affiliated with are asking is for temporary flexibility during COVID-19. Specific start and end dates based on periodic review of health measures. And the answer is still a resounding 'no' from any sort of federal representative we can get in touch with. This, honestly, feels like the federal immigration department is trying to punish schools who are more cautious about opening up like nothing is happening. It tastes bad. edit: edited to reflect the inaccuracy as pointed out by PeterisP. SEVIS is overseen by ICE, not the department of education. Our representatives for SEVIS are generally connected to the DoE in some fashion. I didn't realize folks wouldn't know that ICE oversees immigrants, and that the Ed Department isn't responsible for making this policy.

PeterisP 6y ago
It's not like any education representative can change immigration policy or grant some exceptions, it's not up to them. If taking online classes means that the students visas become invalid, or if their current visa restrictions mean that it's prohibited for them to be in an online-only program, then that's exactly what it means, and it's wrong to blame schools or education department about it, it's not about education but about immigration policy - the domain of Department of State, Congress, etc.
- Blahah 6y ago
  Surely every person involved should simply be turning to the people above/before them in the chain of command and saying "this is impossible, we need to be more flexible now". And whoever is blocking that escalation is reasonably part of the problem.
  - grayfaced 6y ago
    Escalating only works when you can reach reason in the higher chain. You can only go to senior leadership with the options and consequences. We have option A or option B, or we do nothing and we have consequence C. When that leader picks consequence C then you're stuck. We have an administration that doesn't value academia or the visa program. So it's no surprise they're willing to sacrifice it in name of "schools must open".
    - Blahah 6y ago
      Firstly, I don't know of any situation where that's true. If your manager is insisting on something impossible or immoral/unethical, you escalate. Escalating doesn't have to be within the organisation. It can be going public, going sideways (to clients/collaborators), or going way up (to investors/funders/government/regulators). Secondly, what I was saying is that whoever is the person that refuses to take it higher - that person is the problem. If you're stuck underneath them, go above them, or go public, or do whatever you need to do to avoid compromising yourself.
  - PeterisP 6y ago
    For someone in education there's nobody to escalate to with the power to affect immigration policy. The senior leaders in any university can't do that, and the senior leaders in Department of Education can't do that, it's not their domain to decide that. You'd have to escalate up to the president, he's the only link between the people the grandparent poster is complaining to and the people who decide the things grandparent poster wants to change. And it may well be that the response of the top administration is that everything works as intended, that the effect you're complaining about is something they want to increase, not fix.

PeterisP 6y ago

It's not like any education representative can change immigration policy or grant some exceptions, it's not up to them. If taking online classes means that the students visas become invalid, or if their current visa restrictions mean that it's prohibited for them to be in an online-only program, then that's exactly what it means, and it's wrong to blame schools or education department about it, it's not about education but about immigration policy - the domain of Department of State, Congress, etc.

Blahah 6y ago
Surely every person involved should simply be turning to the people above/before them in the chain of command and saying "this is impossible, we need to be more flexible now". And whoever is blocking that escalation is reasonably part of the problem.
- grayfaced 6y ago
  Escalating only works when you can reach reason in the higher chain. You can only go to senior leadership with the options and consequences. We have option A or option B, or we do nothing and we have consequence C. When that leader picks consequence C then you're stuck. We have an administration that doesn't value academia or the visa program. So it's no surprise they're willing to sacrifice it in name of "schools must open".
  - Blahah 6y ago
    Firstly, I don't know of any situation where that's true. If your manager is insisting on something impossible or immoral/unethical, you escalate. Escalating doesn't have to be within the organisation. It can be going public, going sideways (to clients/collaborators), or going way up (to investors/funders/government/regulators). Secondly, what I was saying is that whoever is the person that refuses to take it higher - that person is the problem. If you're stuck underneath them, go above them, or go public, or do whatever you need to do to avoid compromising yourself.
- PeterisP 6y ago
  For someone in education there's nobody to escalate to with the power to affect immigration policy. The senior leaders in any university can't do that, and the senior leaders in Department of Education can't do that, it's not their domain to decide that. You'd have to escalate up to the president, he's the only link between the people the grandparent poster is complaining to and the people who decide the things grandparent poster wants to change. And it may well be that the response of the top administration is that everything works as intended, that the effect you're complaining about is something they want to increase, not fix.