5 ms·

>Those who protested stay-at-home orders were “rooted in white nationalism and run contrary to respect for Black lives,” the letter stated. I feel like we've g

by hpoe 6y ago

>Those who protested stay-at-home orders were “rooted in white nationalism and run contrary to respect for Black lives,” the letter stated. I feel like we've gotten to a point where "white nationalism" has become a code word for "anyone the disagrees with me" I agree white nationalism and racial justice is an important topic, but by arbitrarily labeling everyone who disagrees as a "white nationalist" it seems to be an intellectually dishonest way of refusing to engage with their arguments and the ultimate example of an "ad hominen" attack. Plus it makes it hard to figure out where to really focus attention because to quote Syndrome "If everyone is a [white nationlist] then no one is". Am I alone on this, or do we really believe everyone that doesn't agree with one side is secretly just trying to bring back Jim Crow?

mindslight 6y ago
Only some people actually believe that themselves, most of the signers are simply going along with the perceived group consensus. The false induction of outlying opinions into group consensus and especially perceived other-group consensus is one of the fundamental problems of social media amplification that we're dealing with. Another example is the "terminology debate". Black Lives Matter is protesting deadly violence against Black people. Companies and opportunistic individuals engage with the topic for self-promotion via virtual gestures. And then the whole movement becomes easier to pigeonhole as ridiculous meddlers telling others they can't use various words.
MisterTea 6y ago
Two sides of the same coin. They are the same as the highly vocal opposition who use the same tactics. These are people who can't think for themselves and are comfortable with herd mentality. They love the concept of teams and beating the other team is the only goal, even if it means murder. They are easily manipulated and social media has enabled these "teams" to get their tentacles right into the pocket of every person on this planet. And you wonder why we have a political cesspool. > Am I alone on this, or do we really believe everyone that doesn't agree with one side is secretly just trying to bring back Jim Crow? Watching a video of a black man being choked to death by a police officer, on camera, certainly makes me feel that we haven't completely eliminated Jim Crow.
- rbecker 6y ago
  > Watching a video of a black man being choked to death by a police officer, on camera, certainly makes me feel that we haven't completely eliminated Jim Crow. The USA is a big country, and you can have your pick of instances of police brutality to support any conclusion you want to draw. A white man choked to death, on camera, while police laugh? Here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/01/police-laughed-joked-he-lost-consciousness-handcuffs-minutes-later-he-died/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/01/police-laug... A white six-year-old shot to death by two black police, one of whom only served 21 months in jail for it? Coming right up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jeremy_Mardis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jeremy_Mardis Multiple studies showing police killings (though not violence) are not, on average, racially biased? http://jewishworldreview.com/0620/hughes061620.php3 http://jewishworldreview.com/0620/hughes061620.php3 Will this change your mind? No it won't: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23757135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23757135
  - mindslight 6y ago
    Yes, unaccountable police are a problem for all races. But if you're actually concerned with reform, then you have to agree that Black Lives Matter is doing a fantastic job leading the charge.
    - rbecker 6y ago
      Fantastic, as long as you ignore how whites are being cast as villains in a country where they are becoming a minority, and anyone who brings up statistics refuting this is denounced. Historically, such a situation always worked out great.
      - mindslight 6y ago
        I do not agree that Whites are being "cast as villains" by a significant portion of the BLM movement. I do agree that the few who are doing so are in the wrong. But it's all too easy to write off an entire group by focusing on a few social-media-amplified outliers.

by hpoe 6y ago

mindslight 6y ago

Only some people actually believe that themselves, most of the signers are simply going along with the perceived group consensus. The false induction of outlying opinions into group consensus and especially perceived other-group consensus is one of the fundamental problems of social media amplification that we're dealing with. Another example is the "terminology debate". Black Lives Matter is protesting deadly violence against Black people. Companies and opportunistic individuals engage with the topic for self-promotion via virtual gestures. And then the whole movement becomes easier to pigeonhole as ridiculous meddlers telling others they can't use various words.

MisterTea 6y ago

Two sides of the same coin. They are the same as the highly vocal opposition who use the same tactics. These are people who can't think for themselves and are comfortable with herd mentality. They love the concept of teams and beating the other team is the only goal, even if it means murder. They are easily manipulated and social media has enabled these "teams" to get their tentacles right into the pocket of every person on this planet. And you wonder why we have a political cesspool. > Am I alone on this, or do we really believe everyone that doesn't agree with one side is secretly just trying to bring back Jim Crow? Watching a video of a black man being choked to death by a police officer, on camera, certainly makes me feel that we haven't completely eliminated Jim Crow.

rbecker 6y ago
> Watching a video of a black man being choked to death by a police officer, on camera, certainly makes me feel that we haven't completely eliminated Jim Crow. The USA is a big country, and you can have your pick of instances of police brutality to support any conclusion you want to draw. A white man choked to death, on camera, while police laugh? Here you go: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/01/police-laughed-joked-he-lost-consciousness-handcuffs-minutes-later-he-died/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/01/police-laug... A white six-year-old shot to death by two black police, one of whom only served 21 months in jail for it? Coming right up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jeremy_Mardis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Jeremy_Mardis Multiple studies showing police killings (though not violence) are not, on average, racially biased? http://jewishworldreview.com/0620/hughes061620.php3 http://jewishworldreview.com/0620/hughes061620.php3 Will this change your mind? No it won't: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23757135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23757135
- mindslight 6y ago
  Yes, unaccountable police are a problem for all races. But if you're actually concerned with reform, then you have to agree that Black Lives Matter is doing a fantastic job leading the charge.
  - rbecker 6y ago
    Fantastic, as long as you ignore how whites are being cast as villains in a country where they are becoming a minority, and anyone who brings up statistics refuting this is denounced. Historically, such a situation always worked out great.
    - mindslight 6y ago
      I do not agree that Whites are being "cast as villains" by a significant portion of the BLM movement. I do agree that the few who are doing so are in the wrong. But it's all too easy to write off an entire group by focusing on a few social-media-amplified outliers.