6 ms·

It looks like more of Big Tech is against the 'right to repair' than just Apple. I'd like to know what 'policy violations' were committed by Jordan Pier. But o

It looks like more of Big Tech is against the 'right to repair' than just Apple. I'd like to know what 'policy violations' were committed by Jordan Pier. But of course, Youtube has no obligation to let him know or to let his viewers know.

Gravityloss 6y ago
Youtube is a platform. But can one really build a business on that platform? What kind of protections does the enterpreneur have? Do they have a contract with youtube? Is it easy to switch to some other platform? How hard is it to buy video hosting from a web hotel? I think the whole idea of the internet was a difference to these "dial in" services. On the internet, you can run your thing anywhere and anybody can access it just the same. No walls. That's the whole point.
- throwanem 6y ago
  Build your own video hosting and streaming site? It's been done. They don't last. There were no walls once. But it turns out building walls is a great way to make a lot of money.
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    It's also that hosting video is still pretty expensive at large scales and the only way to make money with advertising is with huge audiences. Other models like subscriptions has a chicken and egg problem of needing to simultaneously have enough subscribers to get creators to use your new service and enough creators to get people to pay.
- bergstromm466 6y ago
  > you can run your thing anywhere and anybody can access it just the same. No walls Welcome to the future Marty! How was your ride in the time machine? I think you've got some catching up to do from the web/world of the early 2000's that you've just come from and are describing here. Let me fill you in on what has happened. Platform Monopolies are in full swing, and the internet is now a corporate owned web - with a myriad of apps that are surveilling our every touch and click (US but also abroad). Palantir has terrifying racist policing algorithms, the NSA is plugged into everything and has a dragnet filling a complex database for US 'homeland security', social media/Facebook campaigns can be used by 'Doublespeak'-ing authoritarian childhood-traumatized leaders to win elections [1], and Crypto AG is a CIA owned company that has been selling back-doored cryptography tools to national governments for many decades. [2] Oh and you might want to Google 'Edward Snowden' and go back and read some of the great the Guardian articles published about it. [3] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-mJnYmdVmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-mJnYmdVmQ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22500231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22500231 or https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812537258/uncovering-the-cias-operation-to-steal-state-secrets https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812537258/uncovering-the-cias... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden... - edit: seriously though - Intellectual Property laws and the Silicon Valley strategy of purchasing IP by buying up competition is suffocating and stifling much needed access to essential technologies, depriving humans the ability to remix, reuse and have access to the underlying technical components in a modular fashion. Our current reality is killing our ability to meet these human needs for play, growth, autonomy and cooperation. The most promising change I see possible is a transition to Commons-based peer production, using the Holographic chain distributed app pattern by Arthur Brock and Eric Harris-Braun, together with a move to mutual credit currencies, replacing mechanisms and dynamics that create or sustain the artificial scarcity of information or knowledge. This world would bring us universal access and shared control of a rich Commons, fully accessible by every child. Essentially what I am describing is an open source world. An open source economic system made up of unencloseable carriers and ever-evolving protocols, immersing us in a diverse and beautiful Commons - our shared inheritance.
  - 6510 6y ago
    Things will improve but first they have to get worse.
    - bergstromm466 6y ago
      No. I think you're just not connected to those already suffering. Some people are living in hell today. [1] I think the narrative you describe comes from ubiquitous psychopathology, which affects all of us. In other words: the weight of our current systems creates a low level mental illness for all who are under it's influence and control. This weight comes from the continual stresses digitally technological society exerts on us. This is the shared reality of digital Rentier Capitalism [2]. It means the system keeps most of us fragmented and passive. But I think your narrative is dangerous. To believe more suffering has to happen, just because you didn't experience pain directly doesn't mean others' suffering isn't worthy of acting upon. All you did is reveal your privilege, which is a great first step. Next comes awareness, should you choose to accept that important mission [3] [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/precariat-global-class-rise-of-populism/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/precariat-global-clas... [2] https://www.resilience.org/stories/2017-08-03/book-day-corruption-capitalism-guy-standing/ https://www.resilience.org/stories/2017-08-03/book-day-corru... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8
      - catalogia 6y ago
        > No. I think you're just not connected to those already suffering. Some people are living in hell today. [1] If you think things can't or won't get even worse, you're being too optimistic. Even if you think some people are already experiencing a maximally bad time, "some" can become "more".
      - 6510 6y ago
        Guy Standing does wonderful work, very inspiring. I also applaud your faith in gradual improvements and the quality of your posts. We need many of you. I've become to cynical. I hope you make it before the rest of us burn everything to the ground.
- dageshi 6y ago
  The audiences won't move. Mixer proved it recently, they bought two of the top streamers from twitch (Ninja and Shroud) but barely a fraction of their audiences would leave twitch for mixer, maybe 10% if that. More to the point, it's not that simple, it's not just streaming but apps for all the mobile devices + everything else that people watch video on (xbox, playstation, smart tv's).
  - viraptor 6y ago
    I'm not sure those are comparable. If you remove ninja and shroud, you're left with ~infinity-2 people playing FPS games on twitch. Removing a high quality electronics repair channel on YouTube is a significant impact on that class of content. I'm going away from YouTube to twitch and other services for some specific tech content. If it's relatively unique, people will find it. (Or if you build awareness over a long time, rather than starting on the day of disappearance)
    - apacheCamel 6y ago
      I 100% believe they are comparable. People tend to watch channels for the personality behind the camera. Ninja and Shroud both do stream FPS games and hundreds of other people stream them too, but look at their numbers. They get more views because the people want to watch them, not somebody else.
      - viraptor 6y ago
        They want to watch when those streamers are available. The tiny percentage which moved to mixer pretty much confirmed that not others will just find someone else to watch instead. It's like TV celebrities. People will be really into one reality tv, but when it ends they'll pick up another one.
        apacheCamel 6y ago
        That's what I am saying, the tech channels are the same way. There are an abundance of tech channels out there, once one gets accidentally deleted from Youtube, people will just pick another.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  Yes they have a contract "YouTube Terms and Conditions" not really favorable for the content creator.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  > On the internet, you can run your thing anywhere and anybody can access it just the same. No walls. That's the whole point. The whole issue is that serving videos is very expensive to do as a "run your thing" effort. YouTube and Netflix alone are soaking up a lot of Internet bandwidth, so the subsidy YT is providing to video creators and viewers should not be underestimated. And this means YT gets to decide what they want to host.
- viraptor 6y ago
  > How hard is it to buy video hosting from a web hotel? You can trivially host a peertube instance (or use an existing one). The question is how to move your viewers there. There doesn't seem to be anything explicitly stopping big accounts from mirroring content. See LTT channel creating floatplane (https://www.htxt.co.za/2019/12/17/linus-tech-tips-streaming-platform-floatplane-now-in-open-beta-calling-for-creators/ https://www.htxt.co.za/2019/12/17/linus-tech-tips-streaming-...)
correct_horse 6y ago
The banned channel apparently contained mostly "vintage audio repair", not exactly Google's bread and butter. Also they allow numerous other creators doing repair (ifixit, louis rossman, even the channel that posted this video). This probably isn't an anti-repair move, but a Kafkaesque bureaucratic one. Still an annoying problem.
- lmilcin 6y ago
  It would be nice to know the exact reason the Youtube decided to kill this and not other repair channels. As an amateur I am subscribed to many repair channels and I can't see any specific reason why this particular channel would deserve getting banned.
- AzzieElbab 6y ago
  An algorithm just deleted entire channel without a warning?
  - voxic11 6y ago
    Happens all the time on YouTube.
    - isoos 6y ago
      Is there a good video backup tool that archives a channel for later viewing?
      - crtasm 6y ago
        Yes, youtube-dl (also handles many, many other sites) https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl
      - sp332 6y ago
        # Download all playlists of YouTube channel/user keeping each playlist in separate directory: $ youtube-dl -o '%(uploader)s/%(playlist)s/%(playlist_index)s - %(title)s.%(ext)s' https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLinuxFoundation/playlists https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLinuxFoundation/playlists
jowsie 6y ago
Considering it's YouTube, it seems a lot more likely that some black box AI kept picking up on him saying electron gun and preemptively nuked his channel over fear of guns. Wouldn't even be close to the first time something similar has happened, and most definitely wont be the last.
- dageshi 6y ago
  There's channels out there whose main topic of conversation is guns, lots of them! I'd be surprised if it's that.
  - karlkatzke 6y ago
    They also frequently get deleted, which is why a lot of people who have channels that feature or regard guns also have second or third channels for non-gun related things, on which they refer to them as "pew-pews" or other similar infantile things that are less likely to be flagged by an AI reading transcripts.
  - voxic11 6y ago
    You can talk about guns in general. For instance it's totally ok to comment on how guns are bad. But it's against YouTube policy to provide any information on the manufacturing, assembly or sale of firearms. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7667605?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7667605?hl=en
    - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
      >You can talk about guns in general. >But it's against YouTube policy to provide any information on the manufacturing, assembly or sale of firearms These statements don't square with each other. I don't think there's any way to have even a historical discussion about arms (or many other subjects) without "providing any information about" manufacturing, assembly or sale. So I guess you can talk about guns until you draw someone's ire or the algo flags you at which point the latter statement is the justification for kicking out your channel.

Gravityloss 6y ago

Youtube is a platform. But can one really build a business on that platform? What kind of protections does the enterpreneur have? Do they have a contract with youtube? Is it easy to switch to some other platform? How hard is it to buy video hosting from a web hotel? I think the whole idea of the internet was a difference to these "dial in" services. On the internet, you can run your thing anywhere and anybody can access it just the same. No walls. That's the whole point.

throwanem 6y ago
Build your own video hosting and streaming site? It's been done. They don't last. There were no walls once. But it turns out building walls is a great way to make a lot of money.
- rtkwe 6y ago
  It's also that hosting video is still pretty expensive at large scales and the only way to make money with advertising is with huge audiences. Other models like subscriptions has a chicken and egg problem of needing to simultaneously have enough subscribers to get creators to use your new service and enough creators to get people to pay.
bergstromm466 6y ago
> you can run your thing anywhere and anybody can access it just the same. No walls Welcome to the future Marty! How was your ride in the time machine? I think you've got some catching up to do from the web/world of the early 2000's that you've just come from and are describing here. Let me fill you in on what has happened. Platform Monopolies are in full swing, and the internet is now a corporate owned web - with a myriad of apps that are surveilling our every touch and click (US but also abroad). Palantir has terrifying racist policing algorithms, the NSA is plugged into everything and has a dragnet filling a complex database for US 'homeland security', social media/Facebook campaigns can be used by 'Doublespeak'-ing authoritarian childhood-traumatized leaders to win elections [1], and Crypto AG is a CIA owned company that has been selling back-doored cryptography tools to national governments for many decades. [2] Oh and you might want to Google 'Edward Snowden' and go back and read some of the great the Guardian articles published about it. [3] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-mJnYmdVmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-mJnYmdVmQ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22500231 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22500231 or https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812537258/uncovering-the-cias-operation-to-steal-state-secrets https://www.npr.org/2020/03/05/812537258/uncovering-the-cias... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden... - edit: seriously though - Intellectual Property laws and the Silicon Valley strategy of purchasing IP by buying up competition is suffocating and stifling much needed access to essential technologies, depriving humans the ability to remix, reuse and have access to the underlying technical components in a modular fashion. Our current reality is killing our ability to meet these human needs for play, growth, autonomy and cooperation. The most promising change I see possible is a transition to Commons-based peer production, using the Holographic chain distributed app pattern by Arthur Brock and Eric Harris-Braun, together with a move to mutual credit currencies, replacing mechanisms and dynamics that create or sustain the artificial scarcity of information or knowledge. This world would bring us universal access and shared control of a rich Commons, fully accessible by every child. Essentially what I am describing is an open source world. An open source economic system made up of unencloseable carriers and ever-evolving protocols, immersing us in a diverse and beautiful Commons - our shared inheritance.
- 6510 6y ago
  Things will improve but first they have to get worse.
  - bergstromm466 6y ago
    No. I think you're just not connected to those already suffering. Some people are living in hell today. [1] I think the narrative you describe comes from ubiquitous psychopathology, which affects all of us. In other words: the weight of our current systems creates a low level mental illness for all who are under it's influence and control. This weight comes from the continual stresses digitally technological society exerts on us. This is the shared reality of digital Rentier Capitalism [2]. It means the system keeps most of us fragmented and passive. But I think your narrative is dangerous. To believe more suffering has to happen, just because you didn't experience pain directly doesn't mean others' suffering isn't worthy of acting upon. All you did is reveal your privilege, which is a great first step. Next comes awareness, should you choose to accept that important mission [3] [1] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/precariat-global-class-rise-of-populism/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/precariat-global-clas... [2] https://www.resilience.org/stories/2017-08-03/book-day-corruption-capitalism-guy-standing/ https://www.resilience.org/stories/2017-08-03/book-day-corru... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8
    - catalogia 6y ago
      > No. I think you're just not connected to those already suffering. Some people are living in hell today. [1] If you think things can't or won't get even worse, you're being too optimistic. Even if you think some people are already experiencing a maximally bad time, "some" can become "more".
    - 6510 6y ago
      Guy Standing does wonderful work, very inspiring. I also applaud your faith in gradual improvements and the quality of your posts. We need many of you. I've become to cynical. I hope you make it before the rest of us burn everything to the ground.
dageshi 6y ago
The audiences won't move. Mixer proved it recently, they bought two of the top streamers from twitch (Ninja and Shroud) but barely a fraction of their audiences would leave twitch for mixer, maybe 10% if that. More to the point, it's not that simple, it's not just streaming but apps for all the mobile devices + everything else that people watch video on (xbox, playstation, smart tv's).
- viraptor 6y ago
  I'm not sure those are comparable. If you remove ninja and shroud, you're left with ~infinity-2 people playing FPS games on twitch. Removing a high quality electronics repair channel on YouTube is a significant impact on that class of content. I'm going away from YouTube to twitch and other services for some specific tech content. If it's relatively unique, people will find it. (Or if you build awareness over a long time, rather than starting on the day of disappearance)
  - apacheCamel 6y ago
    I 100% believe they are comparable. People tend to watch channels for the personality behind the camera. Ninja and Shroud both do stream FPS games and hundreds of other people stream them too, but look at their numbers. They get more views because the people want to watch them, not somebody else.
    - viraptor 6y ago
      They want to watch when those streamers are available. The tiny percentage which moved to mixer pretty much confirmed that not others will just find someone else to watch instead. It's like TV celebrities. People will be really into one reality tv, but when it ends they'll pick up another one.
      - apacheCamel 6y ago
        That's what I am saying, the tech channels are the same way. There are an abundance of tech channels out there, once one gets accidentally deleted from Youtube, people will just pick another.
johannes1234321 6y ago
Yes they have a contract "YouTube Terms and Conditions" not really favorable for the content creator.
zozbot234 6y ago
> On the internet, you can run your thing anywhere and anybody can access it just the same. No walls. That's the whole point. The whole issue is that serving videos is very expensive to do as a "run your thing" effort. YouTube and Netflix alone are soaking up a lot of Internet bandwidth, so the subsidy YT is providing to video creators and viewers should not be underestimated. And this means YT gets to decide what they want to host.
viraptor 6y ago
> How hard is it to buy video hosting from a web hotel? You can trivially host a peertube instance (or use an existing one). The question is how to move your viewers there. There doesn't seem to be anything explicitly stopping big accounts from mirroring content. See LTT channel creating floatplane (https://www.htxt.co.za/2019/12/17/linus-tech-tips-streaming-platform-floatplane-now-in-open-beta-calling-for-creators/ https://www.htxt.co.za/2019/12/17/linus-tech-tips-streaming-...)

correct_horse 6y ago

The banned channel apparently contained mostly "vintage audio repair", not exactly Google's bread and butter. Also they allow numerous other creators doing repair (ifixit, louis rossman, even the channel that posted this video). This probably isn't an anti-repair move, but a Kafkaesque bureaucratic one. Still an annoying problem.

lmilcin 6y ago
It would be nice to know the exact reason the Youtube decided to kill this and not other repair channels. As an amateur I am subscribed to many repair channels and I can't see any specific reason why this particular channel would deserve getting banned.
AzzieElbab 6y ago
An algorithm just deleted entire channel without a warning?
- voxic11 6y ago
  Happens all the time on YouTube.
  - isoos 6y ago
    Is there a good video backup tool that archives a channel for later viewing?
    - crtasm 6y ago
      Yes, youtube-dl (also handles many, many other sites) https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl https://github.com/ytdl-org/youtube-dl
    - sp332 6y ago
      # Download all playlists of YouTube channel/user keeping each playlist in separate directory: $ youtube-dl -o '%(uploader)s/%(playlist)s/%(playlist_index)s - %(title)s.%(ext)s' https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLinuxFoundation/playlists https://www.youtube.com/user/TheLinuxFoundation/playlists

jowsie 6y ago

Considering it's YouTube, it seems a lot more likely that some black box AI kept picking up on him saying electron gun and preemptively nuked his channel over fear of guns. Wouldn't even be close to the first time something similar has happened, and most definitely wont be the last.

dageshi 6y ago
There's channels out there whose main topic of conversation is guns, lots of them! I'd be surprised if it's that.
- karlkatzke 6y ago
  They also frequently get deleted, which is why a lot of people who have channels that feature or regard guns also have second or third channels for non-gun related things, on which they refer to them as "pew-pews" or other similar infantile things that are less likely to be flagged by an AI reading transcripts.
- voxic11 6y ago
  You can talk about guns in general. For instance it's totally ok to comment on how guns are bad. But it's against YouTube policy to provide any information on the manufacturing, assembly or sale of firearms. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7667605?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7667605?hl=en
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    >You can talk about guns in general. >But it's against YouTube policy to provide any information on the manufacturing, assembly or sale of firearms These statements don't square with each other. I don't think there's any way to have even a historical discussion about arms (or many other subjects) without "providing any information about" manufacturing, assembly or sale. So I guess you can talk about guns until you draw someone's ire or the algo flags you at which point the latter statement is the justification for kicking out your channel.