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> You need to be quite confident to do this as it can often result in car drivers honking, shouting or overtaking recklessly and nearly clipping you. Actually,

by u801e 6y ago

> You need to be quite confident to do this as it can often result in car drivers honking, shouting or overtaking recklessly and nearly clipping you. Actually, the opposite is true. When you ride in the center of the lane, motorists will typically make a full lane change to pass you. If you ride near the edge of the lane, motorists will try to squeeze between you and the lane line. A full lane change definitely allows for more distance between the cyclist and motorist.

ljf 6y ago
In an ideal world yes, more commonly - no. I was a confident cyclist, I commuted daily and a could sprint to 30mph, could hold 20mph, and was happy holding my road position. In London, realistically traffic never really got much about 20, so I should have been golden. But the amount of cars that either tried to squeeze by me, honk or shout was huge - a daily occurrence. Even just to gain a car length or two, and always only until the traffic light,but drivers nearly always want to go as fast as their car (and the limit) allows and anything in their way is an inconvenience. If this happened to me on a fast road bike, I think someone on a sit up and beg bike doing 7 to 12mph is going to find holding a road position even harder. And so people ride in the gutter, with no where to turn left or right when an obstacle is ahead or someone comes too close.
- u801e 6y ago
  > In an ideal world yes, more commonly - no. When I refer to riding in the center of the lane, I mean riding between the center and left tire track (or between the center and right tire track when traffic keeps to the left). Almost invariably over the last 15 years or so, I have found that overtaking drivers will change lanes[1]. When I used to ride in the right tire track position (left tire track position where traffic drives on the left), I would frequently have overtaking vehicles squeeze between me and traffic in the adjacent lane. I ride a hybrid bike and can maintain about 15 mph on flat ground and maybe 5 to 8 mph uphill. I still take the lane regardless and will release when safe to do so. [1] https://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/BicyclistPositionOvertakingDistance.pdf https://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/BicyclistP... (figure on page 8)
  - ljf 6y ago
    Are these multi lane roads? In London the roads I was on are usually a single lane in either direction. So to overtake me properly they need to move into the oncoming traffic lane. I hold a position in the centre of my lane, other than when I pull in to allow a vehicle to pass - I'll never ride in the gutter for any length of time. But if I feel I'm holding up traffic and it is safe to do so, I'll move in - but as I say in London I was rarely holding up traffic - and if I was it was only until the next traffic light which can be every 500m or even less!
    - u801e 6y ago
      > Are these multi lane roads? If you're referring to multiple lanes for same direction traffic, then some of them are. Others only had a single lane for same direction traffic divided by a center line. In both cases, traffic would move into the next lane (whether for same or opposite direction traffic) to overtake me or they would slow to my speed and wait for an opportunity to pass. In the latter case, if there wasn't a safe opportunity for overtaking coming up for a bit, I would release the lane by either pulling off the road and letting same direction traffic by, or if there was more space, move a little further towards the edge and let the motorist past me (re-taking the lane afterward). But on roads where there are multiple lanes for same direction traffic, I would hold my position and they would eventually change lanes to pass.
      - ljf 6y ago
        I'm pleased you live in a country that is safe for cyclists with respectful drivers. I don't feel it is that way in the UK ;) - most people aren't terrible, but most don't consider cyclists to have the same rights to the road
        u801e 6y ago
        I'm not saying that I haven't been harrassed, but something like that might happen once every couple of years. In contrast, when I used to ride closer to the edge of the road/lane, I frequently experienced close overtakes.
jamil7 6y ago
Huh that doesn’t resonate so well with my experience but it’s hard to compare different cities and countries universally I guess.
- Luxonis-Brandon 6y ago
  Yes, ultimately infrastructure is the real solution here. Take the Netherlands for example. We interviewed folks from nearly every country on this, and the response in the Netherlands was heartwarming: Every person we talked to had never even heard of someone being hit by a car while riding a bike (or walking). And after the interview, they interviewed a bunch of their friends/family/etc. and came back to us with those results: Still the same, not a single story of an accident. And this all goes back to the way the Dutch design infrastructure. A ton has been written/filmed/etc about this, but here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
- u801e 6y ago
  What has your experience been when riding in the center of the general traffic lane?

by u801e 6y ago

ljf 6y ago

In an ideal world yes, more commonly - no. I was a confident cyclist, I commuted daily and a could sprint to 30mph, could hold 20mph, and was happy holding my road position. In London, realistically traffic never really got much about 20, so I should have been golden. But the amount of cars that either tried to squeeze by me, honk or shout was huge - a daily occurrence. Even just to gain a car length or two, and always only until the traffic light,but drivers nearly always want to go as fast as their car (and the limit) allows and anything in their way is an inconvenience. If this happened to me on a fast road bike, I think someone on a sit up and beg bike doing 7 to 12mph is going to find holding a road position even harder. And so people ride in the gutter, with no where to turn left or right when an obstacle is ahead or someone comes too close.

u801e 6y ago
> In an ideal world yes, more commonly - no. When I refer to riding in the center of the lane, I mean riding between the center and left tire track (or between the center and right tire track when traffic keeps to the left). Almost invariably over the last 15 years or so, I have found that overtaking drivers will change lanes[1]. When I used to ride in the right tire track position (left tire track position where traffic drives on the left), I would frequently have overtaking vehicles squeeze between me and traffic in the adjacent lane. I ride a hybrid bike and can maintain about 15 mph on flat ground and maybe 5 to 8 mph uphill. I still take the lane regardless and will release when safe to do so. [1] https://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/BicyclistPositionOvertakingDistance.pdf https://iamtraffic.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/BicyclistP... (figure on page 8)
- ljf 6y ago
  Are these multi lane roads? In London the roads I was on are usually a single lane in either direction. So to overtake me properly they need to move into the oncoming traffic lane. I hold a position in the centre of my lane, other than when I pull in to allow a vehicle to pass - I'll never ride in the gutter for any length of time. But if I feel I'm holding up traffic and it is safe to do so, I'll move in - but as I say in London I was rarely holding up traffic - and if I was it was only until the next traffic light which can be every 500m or even less!
  - u801e 6y ago
    > Are these multi lane roads? If you're referring to multiple lanes for same direction traffic, then some of them are. Others only had a single lane for same direction traffic divided by a center line. In both cases, traffic would move into the next lane (whether for same or opposite direction traffic) to overtake me or they would slow to my speed and wait for an opportunity to pass. In the latter case, if there wasn't a safe opportunity for overtaking coming up for a bit, I would release the lane by either pulling off the road and letting same direction traffic by, or if there was more space, move a little further towards the edge and let the motorist past me (re-taking the lane afterward). But on roads where there are multiple lanes for same direction traffic, I would hold my position and they would eventually change lanes to pass.
    - ljf 6y ago
      I'm pleased you live in a country that is safe for cyclists with respectful drivers. I don't feel it is that way in the UK ;) - most people aren't terrible, but most don't consider cyclists to have the same rights to the road
      - u801e 6y ago
        I'm not saying that I haven't been harrassed, but something like that might happen once every couple of years. In contrast, when I used to ride closer to the edge of the road/lane, I frequently experienced close overtakes.

jamil7 6y ago

Huh that doesn’t resonate so well with my experience but it’s hard to compare different cities and countries universally I guess.

Luxonis-Brandon 6y ago
Yes, ultimately infrastructure is the real solution here. Take the Netherlands for example. We interviewed folks from nearly every country on this, and the response in the Netherlands was heartwarming: Every person we talked to had never even heard of someone being hit by a car while riding a bike (or walking). And after the interview, they interviewed a bunch of their friends/family/etc. and came back to us with those results: Still the same, not a single story of an accident. And this all goes back to the way the Dutch design infrastructure. A ton has been written/filmed/etc about this, but here's an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
u801e 6y ago
What has your experience been when riding in the center of the general traffic lane?