4 ms·

Well China has banned FB Twitter, Google etc. a decade ago

ketzu 6y ago
Many countries have banned some or more services (especially uber and the like received many bans). But even if others didn't, it seems like a very weak argument to me.
- realusername 6y ago
  Very few countries have banned to the extent of what the CCP did, walling off completely their internet. The CCP can't complain to get a taste of their own medicine here.
  - ketzu 6y ago
    > Very few countries have banned to the extent of what the CCP did That's true, but the start of "they block our apps we should block all of them" seems to weirdly be china, but the argument is usually presented as a general obvious conclusion. I am very much in favor of banning apps that violate local laws and unfortunately that's what china does. So it's more the laws I don't like, not the ban in general. But this prevents me from accepting those bans (edit: banning them because they are chinese) in my (non-us) country. > The CCP can't complain to get a taste of their own medicine here. Sure they can. Everyone regularly complains about receiving their own medicine, including china and the us. But that's not the point. The point is holding yourself, your nation and other nations to your actual standards, not to some arbitrary standards of others. I want my government to enact regulation that benefits the citizens, such as privacy regulations, and enforce it, I don't want them to use nebulous national security regulation to do whatever they want. If possible, it should be clear what the requirements are so people can fulfil it. I really dislike arbitrarily enforceable laws where possibly everyone is in violation.
    - realusername 6y ago
      > If possible, it should be clear what the requirements are so people can fulfil it. I really dislike arbitrarily enforceable laws where possibly everyone is in violation. I do agree with that, these kind of retaliation laws have to be codified and be precised. But that's not something uncommon outside of tech, countries will implement trade sanctions if they also face trade sanctions from other markets. Banning apps owned by the CCP seems a fair approach regarding on how they behave.
      - balola 6y ago
        Does this hurt the CCP? No. It only hurts ByteDance and its investors , which are mostly private entities; while the CCP gets to gloat that look told you, they are no better than us.
        realusername 6y ago
        There's no independent large private company in China right now anyways, ByteDance is controlled by the CCP just like any other large Chinese company (tech or not). And decisions like this do help to hurt the CCP, it reduces the reach of Chinese tech companies.
        balola 6y ago
        The CCP high officials don't really care about anyone but their own relatives and cronies, while your assumption is mostly right as in the cases like Alibaba and Tencent, ByteDance isn't exactly like them, it has a kind of autonomy and internationalization those companies wouldn't dare to dream of. ByteDance isn't as beholden to the party as those two since it's a startup capitalized on the app economy, it's growth is organic, didn't rely on government policies and protection. In fact ByteDance already has blockbuster app killed by Chinese authorities.
        realusername 6y ago
        All the large companies are used for diplomatic purpose internationally by the CCP, ByteDance being that successful won't escape it. Basically they will have two solutions, either move out of China or obey the CCP like the other ones, there's no option to be independent in China. And as the private investors, well, they will soon learn how the CCP works...

Many countries have banned some or more services (especially uber and the like received many bans). But even if others didn't, it seems like a very weak argument to me.

realusername 6y ago
Very few countries have banned to the extent of what the CCP did, walling off completely their internet. The CCP can't complain to get a taste of their own medicine here.
- ketzu 6y ago
  > Very few countries have banned to the extent of what the CCP did That's true, but the start of "they block our apps we should block all of them" seems to weirdly be china, but the argument is usually presented as a general obvious conclusion. I am very much in favor of banning apps that violate local laws and unfortunately that's what china does. So it's more the laws I don't like, not the ban in general. But this prevents me from accepting those bans (edit: banning them because they are chinese) in my (non-us) country. > The CCP can't complain to get a taste of their own medicine here. Sure they can. Everyone regularly complains about receiving their own medicine, including china and the us. But that's not the point. The point is holding yourself, your nation and other nations to your actual standards, not to some arbitrary standards of others. I want my government to enact regulation that benefits the citizens, such as privacy regulations, and enforce it, I don't want them to use nebulous national security regulation to do whatever they want. If possible, it should be clear what the requirements are so people can fulfil it. I really dislike arbitrarily enforceable laws where possibly everyone is in violation.
  - realusername 6y ago
    > If possible, it should be clear what the requirements are so people can fulfil it. I really dislike arbitrarily enforceable laws where possibly everyone is in violation. I do agree with that, these kind of retaliation laws have to be codified and be precised. But that's not something uncommon outside of tech, countries will implement trade sanctions if they also face trade sanctions from other markets. Banning apps owned by the CCP seems a fair approach regarding on how they behave.
    - balola 6y ago
      Does this hurt the CCP? No. It only hurts ByteDance and its investors , which are mostly private entities; while the CCP gets to gloat that look told you, they are no better than us.
      - realusername 6y ago
        There's no independent large private company in China right now anyways, ByteDance is controlled by the CCP just like any other large Chinese company (tech or not). And decisions like this do help to hurt the CCP, it reduces the reach of Chinese tech companies.
        balola 6y ago
        The CCP high officials don't really care about anyone but their own relatives and cronies, while your assumption is mostly right as in the cases like Alibaba and Tencent, ByteDance isn't exactly like them, it has a kind of autonomy and internationalization those companies wouldn't dare to dream of. ByteDance isn't as beholden to the party as those two since it's a startup capitalized on the app economy, it's growth is organic, didn't rely on government policies and protection. In fact ByteDance already has blockbuster app killed by Chinese authorities.
        realusername 6y ago
        All the large companies are used for diplomatic purpose internationally by the CCP, ByteDance being that successful won't escape it. Basically they will have two solutions, either move out of China or obey the CCP like the other ones, there's no option to be independent in China. And as the private investors, well, they will soon learn how the CCP works...