6 ms·

The title of this post could be improved a lot. "US to withdraw visas for students at completely online colleges" Aside from that, this is a dumb move, and go

The title of this post could be improved a lot. "US to withdraw visas for students at completely online colleges" Aside from that, this is a dumb move, and going to potentially affect up to hundreds of thousands of students. If not in actual effect, then at least in perception and concern about whether the US is the place for them to study and want to contribute to. And moreover in the short term, basically incentivizes some significant portion to stop wanting to pay full tuition for essentially remote study that could be given by anyone. I await the trickle down effects on the lost spending and economic impacts in college towns of people getting kicked out from this.

ivanstojic 6y ago
Actually it's not that. It's not "withdraws visas for online only universities." It's actually no visa even if you are on-site and taking in person classes but take more than 1 class (3 credits) from online classes. Full text: https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-exemptions-nonimmigrant-students-taking-online-courses-during https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-ex...
- anoffvu 6y ago
  In 3. It looks like anyone taking any in person classes will be allowed to take more than 3 credit hours online, not vice versa
madaxe_again 6y ago
It’s a dumb move if you see the impact on the students as a bad thing. If you want to make the US an unappealing place to emigrate to, and thus drive down immigration and please your nativists, then it’s a smart move. Based on the way the wind blows in US politics, this is a smart move. They could be even smarter, and once they’ve got the students out of the country, terminate their courses. There’s no way they’d ever want to come back after that, and it would be raucously popular with the natvist support base.
- dgellow 6y ago
  But at what costs... Even if everything works as expected, the mid to long term cost will be ridiculously high (in term of money invested/spent, reputation, etc) just to satisfy a support base.
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    I’m sure it’s a rounding error on the economic, social, and physical damage that was done by pretending COVID 19 was a liberal hoax for a month
  - madaxe_again 6y ago
    That depends entirely on your planning horizon. If you take a long term view, the cost is penurious. If you take a short term view (which our society is built around), then it’ll win you the next election, and nothing after that matters. Nothing of modern politics is about building a better world or country for anyone - it’s just about winning at any cost. Tactically, this move is canny. Strategically, it’s dire - but those setting the strategy will be dead of old age before it comes home to roost, so.
    - dgellow 6y ago
      I feel that explains how the US found itself in this mess.
      - octygen 6y ago
        This post nicely summarizes the game. The effects of short-term tactics are meant to show once Trump is unable to get re-elected for whatever reason. At that point, some fool will get into power and will have to handle the aftermath. If my goal was to make money for myself and my corporation (I do that as POTUS since I highly influence all the major funding decisions), I'd do the exact same things. My insta-base will realize the long-term effects on themselves when I'm dead or, at the very least, out of the picture. But, when that time comes, I would be leaving a legacy with a level of wealth/power that will allow mine to absolutely dominate politics for decades. In other words, Trump is like water and rolls with all punches including big ones like COVID. I'm not American, but one can definitely admire the epitome of self-interest.
refurb 6y ago
There is a 0% chance that the universities don't respond to this and come up with some online/in-person mix to satisfy the visa requirements. International students are cash cows. In all honestly, this likely has little to do with international students and more the Trump administration purposefully forcing the universities hands. Just a theory.
- henrikschroder 6y ago
  I agree, this feels like the administration forcing universities to move back to in-person classes through economic incentives. It's one thing to not grant any new student visas because international travel and relocation is iffy right now. And it's one thing to yank visas for international students that have gone home because of the pandemic. That's understandable. But this impacts students that are already in the US, have already paid tuition for the fall semester, and are essentially shoveling free money into the country. It makes no sense whatsoever, unless as some kind of political bullshit play around "re-opening".
  - prmph 6y ago
    As I commented elsewhere, this is really a move aimed at destabilizing the higher educational system. Trump and his base see do not care about Universities, which are seen as "liberal." Universities cannot just resume fully as long as the virus keeps raging, no matter what. Caught between the Trump order and the virus, things will start going downhill.
    - hnlurker 6y ago
      Uh... they are liberal strongholds, overwhelmingly. There is a mountain of evidence for it. https://heterodoxacademy.org/professors-moved-left-but-country-did-not/ https://heterodoxacademy.org/professors-moved-left-but-count...
UncleMeat 6y ago
It isn't just the direct effects. A huge portion of grad students are international students. PhD students don't tend to take many classes. Not only does this hurt the international students, but now a huge portion of TA labor is at risk with no real alternative - a month before classes start again.

ivanstojic 6y ago

Actually it's not that. It's not "withdraws visas for online only universities." It's actually no visa even if you are on-site and taking in person classes but take more than 1 class (3 credits) from online classes. Full text: https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-exemptions-nonimmigrant-students-taking-online-courses-during https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-ex...

anoffvu 6y ago
In 3. It looks like anyone taking any in person classes will be allowed to take more than 3 credit hours online, not vice versa

madaxe_again 6y ago

It’s a dumb move if you see the impact on the students as a bad thing. If you want to make the US an unappealing place to emigrate to, and thus drive down immigration and please your nativists, then it’s a smart move. Based on the way the wind blows in US politics, this is a smart move. They could be even smarter, and once they’ve got the students out of the country, terminate their courses. There’s no way they’d ever want to come back after that, and it would be raucously popular with the natvist support base.

dgellow 6y ago
But at what costs... Even if everything works as expected, the mid to long term cost will be ridiculously high (in term of money invested/spent, reputation, etc) just to satisfy a support base.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  I’m sure it’s a rounding error on the economic, social, and physical damage that was done by pretending COVID 19 was a liberal hoax for a month
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  That depends entirely on your planning horizon. If you take a long term view, the cost is penurious. If you take a short term view (which our society is built around), then it’ll win you the next election, and nothing after that matters. Nothing of modern politics is about building a better world or country for anyone - it’s just about winning at any cost. Tactically, this move is canny. Strategically, it’s dire - but those setting the strategy will be dead of old age before it comes home to roost, so.
  - dgellow 6y ago
    I feel that explains how the US found itself in this mess.
    - octygen 6y ago
      This post nicely summarizes the game. The effects of short-term tactics are meant to show once Trump is unable to get re-elected for whatever reason. At that point, some fool will get into power and will have to handle the aftermath. If my goal was to make money for myself and my corporation (I do that as POTUS since I highly influence all the major funding decisions), I'd do the exact same things. My insta-base will realize the long-term effects on themselves when I'm dead or, at the very least, out of the picture. But, when that time comes, I would be leaving a legacy with a level of wealth/power that will allow mine to absolutely dominate politics for decades. In other words, Trump is like water and rolls with all punches including big ones like COVID. I'm not American, but one can definitely admire the epitome of self-interest.

refurb 6y ago

There is a 0% chance that the universities don't respond to this and come up with some online/in-person mix to satisfy the visa requirements. International students are cash cows. In all honestly, this likely has little to do with international students and more the Trump administration purposefully forcing the universities hands. Just a theory.

henrikschroder 6y ago
I agree, this feels like the administration forcing universities to move back to in-person classes through economic incentives. It's one thing to not grant any new student visas because international travel and relocation is iffy right now. And it's one thing to yank visas for international students that have gone home because of the pandemic. That's understandable. But this impacts students that are already in the US, have already paid tuition for the fall semester, and are essentially shoveling free money into the country. It makes no sense whatsoever, unless as some kind of political bullshit play around "re-opening".
- prmph 6y ago
  As I commented elsewhere, this is really a move aimed at destabilizing the higher educational system. Trump and his base see do not care about Universities, which are seen as "liberal." Universities cannot just resume fully as long as the virus keeps raging, no matter what. Caught between the Trump order and the virus, things will start going downhill.
  - hnlurker 6y ago
    Uh... they are liberal strongholds, overwhelmingly. There is a mountain of evidence for it. https://heterodoxacademy.org/professors-moved-left-but-country-did-not/ https://heterodoxacademy.org/professors-moved-left-but-count...

UncleMeat 6y ago

It isn't just the direct effects. A huge portion of grad students are international students. PhD students don't tend to take many classes. Not only does this hurt the international students, but now a huge portion of TA labor is at risk with no real alternative - a month before classes start again.