5 ms·

Us online tuition move hits foreign visas

52 points by weyland108 6y ago

snapetom 6y ago
This is a punch right at China. https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-students-in-the-us-by-country-of-origin/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-stu...
- MarkMarine 6y ago
  Ah yes. Forced to stay away from a raging corona virus hotspot. Got em
  - abalashov 6y ago
    Seriously. Right to the gut! Boom!
- ramraj07 6y ago
  Hard to say - this could be a way to force universities to fully open as well; most universities with heavy international population would want this to happen to their paying students.
- agakshat 6y ago
  As has become the norm, this punch will boomerang back and have the opposite effect. China's brain drain [1] further reduces and the engineers who would've built companies here will do so in China now. [1] https://macropolo.org/digital-projects/the-global-ai-talent-tracker/ https://macropolo.org/digital-projects/the-global-ai-talent-...
- thatfrenchguy 6y ago
  I mean, China just has more people. If you look at per capita numbers, China has barely 2x the number of enrolled students as France (and the US is not really a target market for french students).
supernova87a 6y ago
The title of this post could be improved a lot. "US to withdraw visas for students at completely online colleges" Aside from that, this is a dumb move, and going to potentially affect up to hundreds of thousands of students. If not in actual effect, then at least in perception and concern about whether the US is the place for them to study and want to contribute to. And moreover in the short term, basically incentivizes some significant portion to stop wanting to pay full tuition for essentially remote study that could be given by anyone. I await the trickle down effects on the lost spending and economic impacts in college towns of people getting kicked out from this.
- ivanstojic 6y ago
  Actually it's not that. It's not "withdraws visas for online only universities." It's actually no visa even if you are on-site and taking in person classes but take more than 1 class (3 credits) from online classes. Full text: https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-exemptions-nonimmigrant-students-taking-online-courses-during https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-ex...
  - anoffvu 6y ago
    In 3. It looks like anyone taking any in person classes will be allowed to take more than 3 credit hours online, not vice versa
- madaxe_again 6y ago
  It’s a dumb move if you see the impact on the students as a bad thing. If you want to make the US an unappealing place to emigrate to, and thus drive down immigration and please your nativists, then it’s a smart move. Based on the way the wind blows in US politics, this is a smart move. They could be even smarter, and once they’ve got the students out of the country, terminate their courses. There’s no way they’d ever want to come back after that, and it would be raucously popular with the natvist support base.
  - dgellow 6y ago
chvid 6y ago
And you will still have to pay full fees.
LatteLazy 6y ago
It will be interesting to see how much of the pull of a US education is the education and how much is a Visa, American contacts and the "American lifestyle"...
totalZero 6y ago
My immediate interpretation was that this is a play by the Executive Branch to pressure universities to maintain in-person classes in the coming semester.
- prmph 6y ago
  Not exactly. Trump and his base do not care about Universities, which are seen as "liberal." Universities becoming fully open does not help his base or the economy as a whole, and thus his re-election chances. This is a move aimed at destabilizing or collapsing the higher educational system. If safety from the virus continues to be a concern (as seems likely for the foreseeable future), universities cannot just resume fully, no matter what. Caught between the Trump order and the virus, things will start going downhill.
  - User23 6y ago
    This is a nice example of the mind-reader fallacy. Plenty of Trump supporters care deeply about universities, but feel that they are presently not fulfilling their societal role very well. That role being to preserve and add to our intellectual and cultural heritage while forming young persons to be thoughtful and productive members of society.
  - totalZero 6y ago
    I don't think that your analysis is coherent given the demographics of the political divide. The GOP has more support among high-income Americans than the DNC, and that support increases as you go further up the line. Rich people tend to send their children to universities. It doesn't serve them to destabilize or collapse the higher education system. I think the larger weakness in your line of argument is that whatever happens to students will have externalities that reverberate beyond universities themselves. Students who are not in school will probably live at home, reifying the pandemic in the minds of their parents. They may question their tuition, creating a quagmire for universities that suddenly have to explain the high price of education via glorified webinars. They may choose to take time off and compete for jobs in the labor market. It would be somewhat demoralizing for a middle-class family to be unable to send a college student back to school.
dzonga 6y ago
simple pandering by the current us gvt. student visas are cancelled, rolls into h1b. n no more of those dirty liberal immigrants. n then you can parade how strong you're against china.

52 points by weyland108 6y ago

This is a punch right at China. https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-students-in-the-us-by-country-of-origin/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/233880/international-stu...

MarkMarine 6y ago
Ah yes. Forced to stay away from a raging corona virus hotspot. Got em
- abalashov 6y ago
  Seriously. Right to the gut! Boom!
ramraj07 6y ago
Hard to say - this could be a way to force universities to fully open as well; most universities with heavy international population would want this to happen to their paying students.
agakshat 6y ago
As has become the norm, this punch will boomerang back and have the opposite effect. China's brain drain [1] further reduces and the engineers who would've built companies here will do so in China now. [1] https://macropolo.org/digital-projects/the-global-ai-talent-tracker/ https://macropolo.org/digital-projects/the-global-ai-talent-...
thatfrenchguy 6y ago
I mean, China just has more people. If you look at per capita numbers, China has barely 2x the number of enrolled students as France (and the US is not really a target market for french students).

supernova87a 6y ago

The title of this post could be improved a lot. "US to withdraw visas for students at completely online colleges" Aside from that, this is a dumb move, and going to potentially affect up to hundreds of thousands of students. If not in actual effect, then at least in perception and concern about whether the US is the place for them to study and want to contribute to. And moreover in the short term, basically incentivizes some significant portion to stop wanting to pay full tuition for essentially remote study that could be given by anyone. I await the trickle down effects on the lost spending and economic impacts in college towns of people getting kicked out from this.

ivanstojic 6y ago
Actually it's not that. It's not "withdraws visas for online only universities." It's actually no visa even if you are on-site and taking in person classes but take more than 1 class (3 credits) from online classes. Full text: https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-exemptions-nonimmigrant-students-taking-online-courses-during https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-ex...
- anoffvu 6y ago
  In 3. It looks like anyone taking any in person classes will be allowed to take more than 3 credit hours online, not vice versa
madaxe_again 6y ago
It’s a dumb move if you see the impact on the students as a bad thing. If you want to make the US an unappealing place to emigrate to, and thus drive down immigration and please your nativists, then it’s a smart move. Based on the way the wind blows in US politics, this is a smart move. They could be even smarter, and once they’ve got the students out of the country, terminate their courses. There’s no way they’d ever want to come back after that, and it would be raucously popular with the natvist support base.
- dgellow 6y ago

chvid 6y ago

And you will still have to pay full fees.

LatteLazy 6y ago

It will be interesting to see how much of the pull of a US education is the education and how much is a Visa, American contacts and the "American lifestyle"...

totalZero 6y ago

My immediate interpretation was that this is a play by the Executive Branch to pressure universities to maintain in-person classes in the coming semester.

prmph 6y ago
Not exactly. Trump and his base do not care about Universities, which are seen as "liberal." Universities becoming fully open does not help his base or the economy as a whole, and thus his re-election chances. This is a move aimed at destabilizing or collapsing the higher educational system. If safety from the virus continues to be a concern (as seems likely for the foreseeable future), universities cannot just resume fully, no matter what. Caught between the Trump order and the virus, things will start going downhill.
- User23 6y ago
  This is a nice example of the mind-reader fallacy. Plenty of Trump supporters care deeply about universities, but feel that they are presently not fulfilling their societal role very well. That role being to preserve and add to our intellectual and cultural heritage while forming young persons to be thoughtful and productive members of society.
- totalZero 6y ago
  I don't think that your analysis is coherent given the demographics of the political divide. The GOP has more support among high-income Americans than the DNC, and that support increases as you go further up the line. Rich people tend to send their children to universities. It doesn't serve them to destabilize or collapse the higher education system. I think the larger weakness in your line of argument is that whatever happens to students will have externalities that reverberate beyond universities themselves. Students who are not in school will probably live at home, reifying the pandemic in the minds of their parents. They may question their tuition, creating a quagmire for universities that suddenly have to explain the high price of education via glorified webinars. They may choose to take time off and compete for jobs in the labor market. It would be somewhat demoralizing for a middle-class family to be unable to send a college student back to school.

dzonga 6y ago

simple pandering by the current us gvt. student visas are cancelled, rolls into h1b. n no more of those dirty liberal immigrants. n then you can parade how strong you're against china.