6 ms·

NetBSD Internals

107 points by jayp1418 6y ago

bch 6y ago
NetBSD is such a joy to work with, I’ve stuck with it for nigh 18 years (NetBSD 1.6). I’ve used FreeBSD and Linux fairly extensively (esp Linux at $work, of course), and dabbled with DragonFly and Open BSDs, but the fit/finish of NetBSD keeps me coming back. The linked document is fairly old. There seems to be a lot of churn in the tree lately (last 6(?) months; seems to have slowed last few weeks), especially by ad@ (Andrew Doran). Browse the mailing list[0] to see what’s going on in -current. It’s extensive enough (read: occasionally unstable) that I’ve moved from running -current as my daily-driver (which was possible for an amazingly long time) to tracking 9-release. If anybody is interested in a well put together *nix, esp a BSD, NetBSD[1] deserves attention. [0] https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/ https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/ [1] https://NetBSD.org/ https://NetBSD.org/
- dilippkumar 6y ago
  I’ve been running OpenBSD as my daily driver for the past few months and I like it. Turning my laptop into a little fortress appealed to the same part of me that loved the Tesla Cybertruck for being built like a tank. How does NetBSD compare with OpenBSD? What would be the strongest reason for me to switch over?
  - bch 6y ago
    If you like Open, I wouldn’t switch; Keep enjoying it. Seems to me Net and Open are remarkably similar- relatively simple implementations with an eye to traditional Unix and standards. OpenBSD is more conservative, in the name of security, at the cost of “neat things”. Seems to me they eschewed MP kernels for ages on that basis, and won’t ever have (eg) PAM for authentication. Make of it what you will. In the meantime, enjoy OpenBSD!
    - non-entity 6y ago
      > Seems to me Net and Open are remarkably similar- relatively simple implementations with an eye to traditional Unix and standards. Well OpenBSD was originally forked from NetBSD and iirc, NetBSD was the first of the "modern" BSD's forked from 386BSD.
      - bch 6y ago
        You’re right on both counts. But to throw a wrinkle in this, DragonFlyBSD was forked from FreeBSD 4 more recently than Open from Net, and is quite a remarkably different beast; it doesn’t necessarily follow they need to be remarkably similar.
  - LeoPanthera 6y ago
    Well. NetBSD supports bluetooth. (!) But in general, the reasons to run one or the other don't overlap all that much. People already happy running OpenBSD are unlikely to want to switch.
  - Grimm665 6y ago
    NetBSD was my favorite OS to run on a Raspberry Pi. Raspbian (at least back in the RPi 2 days) felt like a stripped down Debian squeezed into something that can run on the Pi, while NetBSD seemed to feel right at home. Not very scientific of a response, but meh, give it a try if you've got a Pi lying around!
iJohnDoe 6y ago
I cut my teeth on NetBSD and was the OS I learned *NIX on. I deployed many production systems using NetBSD. A great OS that is very under appreciated, very under represented, and very under respected.
- samoa42 6y ago
  "no hype required"
- Snawoot 6y ago
  Don't get me wrong, but I can't see why anyone should use something except mainstream OS like Linux? Taking into account that fact what OS is no interest for people itself, it's just a platform for applications.
  - vlan0 6y ago
    Network performance and efficiency are pretty high on that list. This might even still be true today.
    - Snawoot 6y ago
      I'm not sure *BSD has top network performance today: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=windows-linux-10gbe&num=4 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=windows-...
      - vlan0 6y ago
        Eh, I'd be more interested in seeing how well each could be optimized for a specific workload. For instance, take a peak of what Netflix has accomplished (200Gbps of TLS from single server). I'd wager that Windows Server could not be optimized to the same degree. https://2019.eurobsdcon.org/slides/NUMA%20Optimizations%20in%20the%20FreeBSD%20Network%20Stack%20-%20Drew%20Gallatin.pdf https://2019.eurobsdcon.org/slides/NUMA%20Optimizations%20in...
  - mikem170 6y ago
sloshnmosh 6y ago
I have tried using various BSD OS’s but they always seemed to require a lot more work if you wanted a desktop GUI. Am I correct in thinking that BSD is meant to be used “headless” for security reasons?
- nix23 6y ago
  30 minutes is not much for freebsd, otherwise use something like http://ghostbsd.org/ http://ghostbsd.org/ or https://nomadbsd.org/ https://nomadbsd.org/ but you learn much more with net- open- freebsd

107 points by jayp1418 6y ago

bch 6y ago

NetBSD is such a joy to work with, I’ve stuck with it for nigh 18 years (NetBSD 1.6). I’ve used FreeBSD and Linux fairly extensively (esp Linux at $work, of course), and dabbled with DragonFly and Open BSDs, but the fit/finish of NetBSD keeps me coming back. The linked document is fairly old. There seems to be a lot of churn in the tree lately (last 6(?) months; seems to have slowed last few weeks), especially by ad@ (Andrew Doran). Browse the mailing list[0] to see what’s going on in -current. It’s extensive enough (read: occasionally unstable) that I’ve moved from running -current as my daily-driver (which was possible for an amazingly long time) to tracking 9-release. If anybody is interested in a well put together *nix, esp a BSD, NetBSD[1] deserves attention. [0] https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/ https://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/ [1] https://NetBSD.org/ https://NetBSD.org/

dilippkumar 6y ago
I’ve been running OpenBSD as my daily driver for the past few months and I like it. Turning my laptop into a little fortress appealed to the same part of me that loved the Tesla Cybertruck for being built like a tank. How does NetBSD compare with OpenBSD? What would be the strongest reason for me to switch over?
- bch 6y ago
  If you like Open, I wouldn’t switch; Keep enjoying it. Seems to me Net and Open are remarkably similar- relatively simple implementations with an eye to traditional Unix and standards. OpenBSD is more conservative, in the name of security, at the cost of “neat things”. Seems to me they eschewed MP kernels for ages on that basis, and won’t ever have (eg) PAM for authentication. Make of it what you will. In the meantime, enjoy OpenBSD!
  - non-entity 6y ago
    > Seems to me Net and Open are remarkably similar- relatively simple implementations with an eye to traditional Unix and standards. Well OpenBSD was originally forked from NetBSD and iirc, NetBSD was the first of the "modern" BSD's forked from 386BSD.
    - bch 6y ago
      You’re right on both counts. But to throw a wrinkle in this, DragonFlyBSD was forked from FreeBSD 4 more recently than Open from Net, and is quite a remarkably different beast; it doesn’t necessarily follow they need to be remarkably similar.
- LeoPanthera 6y ago
  Well. NetBSD supports bluetooth. (!) But in general, the reasons to run one or the other don't overlap all that much. People already happy running OpenBSD are unlikely to want to switch.
- Grimm665 6y ago
  NetBSD was my favorite OS to run on a Raspberry Pi. Raspbian (at least back in the RPi 2 days) felt like a stripped down Debian squeezed into something that can run on the Pi, while NetBSD seemed to feel right at home. Not very scientific of a response, but meh, give it a try if you've got a Pi lying around!

iJohnDoe 6y ago

I cut my teeth on NetBSD and was the OS I learned *NIX on. I deployed many production systems using NetBSD. A great OS that is very under appreciated, very under represented, and very under respected.

samoa42 6y ago
"no hype required"
Snawoot 6y ago
Don't get me wrong, but I can't see why anyone should use something except mainstream OS like Linux? Taking into account that fact what OS is no interest for people itself, it's just a platform for applications.
- vlan0 6y ago
  Network performance and efficiency are pretty high on that list. This might even still be true today.
  - Snawoot 6y ago
    I'm not sure *BSD has top network performance today: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=windows-linux-10gbe&num=4 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=windows-...
    - vlan0 6y ago
      Eh, I'd be more interested in seeing how well each could be optimized for a specific workload. For instance, take a peak of what Netflix has accomplished (200Gbps of TLS from single server). I'd wager that Windows Server could not be optimized to the same degree. https://2019.eurobsdcon.org/slides/NUMA%20Optimizations%20in%20the%20FreeBSD%20Network%20Stack%20-%20Drew%20Gallatin.pdf https://2019.eurobsdcon.org/slides/NUMA%20Optimizations%20in...
- mikem170 6y ago

sloshnmosh 6y ago

I have tried using various BSD OS’s but they always seemed to require a lot more work if you wanted a desktop GUI. Am I correct in thinking that BSD is meant to be used “headless” for security reasons?

nix23 6y ago
30 minutes is not much for freebsd, otherwise use something like http://ghostbsd.org/ http://ghostbsd.org/ or https://nomadbsd.org/ https://nomadbsd.org/ but you learn much more with net- open- freebsd