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> As someone who worked in defense consulting/IT contracting many moons ago, let me clue you in on a simple fact: there is an INSANE amount of money wasted on t

> As someone who worked in defense consulting/IT contracting many moons ago, let me clue you in on a simple fact: there is an INSANE amount of money wasted on these contracts. I've always wondered, considering massive amount of waste in Western military budgets, it makes me wonder what the real amount of money being invested compared to other military powers such as Russia and China.

thefounder 6y ago
Russia has its own "leaks"(money wise).
- hangonhn 6y ago
  The Chinese military is historically beset by corruption and "leaks". The "Century of Humiliation" started when the Chinese navy was utterly destroyed by a newbie regional power Japan at the Battle of Yalu River partly because corruption had deprived the Chinese of enough ammunition for gunnery practices. Also, take any figures coming out of the current Chinese military with a grain of salt. The Chinese military budget is likely to be much, much bigger. Part of Xi's reform is to get rid of the fat in the Chinese military. It may be a while be China sees the fruits of those reforms.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
    But is there real reform? I know they're "killing chickens to scare monkeys" (杀鸡儆猴), but the incentives for corruption remain unchanged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_the_chicken_to_scare_the_monkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_the_chicken_to_scare_the_...
    - hangonhn 6y ago
      Yeah I'm pretty skeptical as well but I've learned that just because someone is a competitor, we shouldn't deprive them of the virtues that we like to believe we have. It is very possible and I would argue probable that Xi is a genuine Chinese patriot (likewise I would say for Putin). Being a patriot, however, doesn't mean one can't also accept some amount of corruption if that furthers the long term goals. As people have already pointed out, even the US defense industry has some level of corruption too but no one can reasonably doubt the superiority of the US military. If we are frank with ourselves, the US is somewhat corrupt too yet it's always managed to cope with that.
taurath 6y ago
In terms of force capabilities, those are much more difficult to hide. The amount of say, aircraft carrier groups is always going to be public knowledge, they're too big to hide. But in the world of nuclear ICBMs, the strongest nation states don't ever fight each other directly outside the smallest skirmishes. So the military for China and the US is mostly used to ensure compliance and power within their sphere of influence.
blaser-waffle 6y ago
> it makes me wonder what the real amount of money being invested compared to other military powers such as Russia and China Probably a lot, but it's hard to do apples-to-apples, because the economies are very different. US soldiers/sailors/marines/etc. need to get something on-par with US wages. Ditto for defense contractors -- those programmers need to get paid alright, otherwise they're going to piss off to SV, NYC, Denver, etc. Average salaries in China and Russia are going to be lower, as are costs of production of hardware, so you may get a lot more relative to the size of the investment.

thefounder 6y ago

Russia has its own "leaks"(money wise).

hangonhn 6y ago
The Chinese military is historically beset by corruption and "leaks". The "Century of Humiliation" started when the Chinese navy was utterly destroyed by a newbie regional power Japan at the Battle of Yalu River partly because corruption had deprived the Chinese of enough ammunition for gunnery practices. Also, take any figures coming out of the current Chinese military with a grain of salt. The Chinese military budget is likely to be much, much bigger. Part of Xi's reform is to get rid of the fat in the Chinese military. It may be a while be China sees the fruits of those reforms.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 6y ago
  But is there real reform? I know they're "killing chickens to scare monkeys" (杀鸡儆猴), but the incentives for corruption remain unchanged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_the_chicken_to_scare_the_monkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_the_chicken_to_scare_the_...
  - hangonhn 6y ago
    Yeah I'm pretty skeptical as well but I've learned that just because someone is a competitor, we shouldn't deprive them of the virtues that we like to believe we have. It is very possible and I would argue probable that Xi is a genuine Chinese patriot (likewise I would say for Putin). Being a patriot, however, doesn't mean one can't also accept some amount of corruption if that furthers the long term goals. As people have already pointed out, even the US defense industry has some level of corruption too but no one can reasonably doubt the superiority of the US military. If we are frank with ourselves, the US is somewhat corrupt too yet it's always managed to cope with that.

taurath 6y ago

In terms of force capabilities, those are much more difficult to hide. The amount of say, aircraft carrier groups is always going to be public knowledge, they're too big to hide. But in the world of nuclear ICBMs, the strongest nation states don't ever fight each other directly outside the smallest skirmishes. So the military for China and the US is mostly used to ensure compliance and power within their sphere of influence.

blaser-waffle 6y ago

> it makes me wonder what the real amount of money being invested compared to other military powers such as Russia and China Probably a lot, but it's hard to do apples-to-apples, because the economies are very different. US soldiers/sailors/marines/etc. need to get something on-par with US wages. Ditto for defense contractors -- those programmers need to get paid alright, otherwise they're going to piss off to SV, NYC, Denver, etc. Average salaries in China and Russia are going to be lower, as are costs of production of hardware, so you may get a lot more relative to the size of the investment.