5 ms·

"estimate"? How can they not know exactly how many people have H1bs?

Jach 6y ago
FTA: Citizenship and Immigration said in its report that coming up with a number for H-1Bs living in the U.S. “is complex, as no electronic data system tracks or houses this information.” A scream emoji seems appropriate...
- baggy_trough 6y ago
  You want the government to be more effective and efficient at tracking people?
  - jypepin 6y ago
    well if they claim the H1b program is abused, you bet I'd want them to have real data to report that
  - gruez 6y ago
    They already: * have access to your internet usage, search history, and phone records * track our location through cellphones * have surveillance cameras everywhere, in case you didn't bring your phone * track where your cars is through a vast network of ANPRs * fly drones/planes over cities doing aerial surveillance And you think that tracking the number of H1B visa holders is too much?
    - rtkwe 6y ago
      The roadblock as always is bringing all that info together. Few places have access to all that information and a way to synthesize it together.
- jypepin 6y ago
  So when a H1b holder enters the US with their H1b, there is no way for the border official to know if it's real? That seems impossible to me.
  - rosensan 6y ago
    When you enter the country on an H1B or otherwise do anything related to any visa status, the onus is on you to carry around all relevant and supporting documentation, in physical, original paper form. Visas, passports etc. existed before computers, probably in much the same way as they do today.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Lots of authentic documents are illegitimate.
- vsskanth 6y ago
  Of course it exists. It's called an I-94. DHS has that info. Every single foreigner is assigned a unique alien number and tracks your entry and exit into the country. They just don't want to deal with connecting information from two different departments.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - ReptileMan 6y ago
    With so many types of data collected, one shudders to imagine what will happen if they discover the join sql statement.
    - belltaco 6y ago
      When did they add the join statement to COBOL?
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Strictly speaking that's insufficient as crossing from the US into Canada by land doesn't invalidate your I-94. They do need to join it against a bunch of other data -- which they do have.
    - refurb 6y ago
      Exactly. They have the data, but they’d need to link it to a few other sources for it to be complete. The US, unlike Europe (at least in my experience) doesn’t check passports on the way out. They rely on flight manifests or information from Canadian authorities on who has exited.
      - jen20 6y ago
        > unlike Europe Unlike the Schengen zone, certainly, but some European countries also do not check passports on exit (the UK is a good example).
vikramkr 6y ago
They know how many have h1bs, but not how many of them are actually in the US. Which is just amazing. We need to bend over and let them take our privacy away so they can fight the terrorists apparently, but the same government doesnt even keep track of how many h1b holders are in the country? If the data of who every citizen is calling on their phones is so important for national security- how is it not worth the government's time to collect and analyze data to figure out who is actually in the country?
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Especially since the government gets from all non-immigrants: - Common carrier arrival manifests. - Visa stamp process arrival record and I-94 issuance. [4] - US-VISIT biometrics collection on arrival. [2] - Form I-9 when starting a new job. [3] - Form AR-11 every time they move. [1] - Common carrier departure manifests. - Tax returns. As far as I can tell the only people who "sneak out" do so by crossing the border into Canada and the US should have access to that data from Canadian authorities after the fact also. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/ar-11 https://www.uscis.gov/ar-11 [2] https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/usvisit/usvisit_edu_traveler_brochure_english.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/usvisit/usvisit_edu_trav... [3] https://www.uscis.gov/i-9 https://www.uscis.gov/i-9 [4] https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/ https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- enraged_camel 6y ago
  When was the last time you traveled outside the USA? Did you notice how Customs and Border Patrol did not check and stamp your passport, like they do for incoming travelers? Therefore, since there is no way to detect when an H1B worker leaves the country, there is no easy way to estimate the number of H1Bs currently in the country.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - woobar 6y ago
djhaskin987 6y ago
Clearly you did not read the article. In there it clearly states that it is because there is no electronic tracking system of any kind. They're trying to figure out the estimates based on paper records.
- alphachloride 6y ago
  I would suggest that you take a look at the guidelines[1] for hacker news, which I believe set a good standard for productive discourse. Particularly: > Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that." [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Jach 6y ago

FTA: Citizenship and Immigration said in its report that coming up with a number for H-1Bs living in the U.S. “is complex, as no electronic data system tracks or houses this information.” A scream emoji seems appropriate...

baggy_trough 6y ago
You want the government to be more effective and efficient at tracking people?
- jypepin 6y ago
  well if they claim the H1b program is abused, you bet I'd want them to have real data to report that
- gruez 6y ago
  They already: * have access to your internet usage, search history, and phone records * track our location through cellphones * have surveillance cameras everywhere, in case you didn't bring your phone * track where your cars is through a vast network of ANPRs * fly drones/planes over cities doing aerial surveillance And you think that tracking the number of H1B visa holders is too much?
  - rtkwe 6y ago
    The roadblock as always is bringing all that info together. Few places have access to all that information and a way to synthesize it together.
jypepin 6y ago
So when a H1b holder enters the US with their H1b, there is no way for the border official to know if it's real? That seems impossible to me.
- rosensan 6y ago
  When you enter the country on an H1B or otherwise do anything related to any visa status, the onus is on you to carry around all relevant and supporting documentation, in physical, original paper form. Visas, passports etc. existed before computers, probably in much the same way as they do today.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Lots of authentic documents are illegitimate.
vsskanth 6y ago
Of course it exists. It's called an I-94. DHS has that info. Every single foreigner is assigned a unique alien number and tracks your entry and exit into the country. They just don't want to deal with connecting information from two different departments.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ReptileMan 6y ago
  With so many types of data collected, one shudders to imagine what will happen if they discover the join sql statement.
  - belltaco 6y ago
    When did they add the join statement to COBOL?
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Strictly speaking that's insufficient as crossing from the US into Canada by land doesn't invalidate your I-94. They do need to join it against a bunch of other data -- which they do have.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Exactly. They have the data, but they’d need to link it to a few other sources for it to be complete. The US, unlike Europe (at least in my experience) doesn’t check passports on the way out. They rely on flight manifests or information from Canadian authorities on who has exited.
    - jen20 6y ago
      > unlike Europe Unlike the Schengen zone, certainly, but some European countries also do not check passports on exit (the UK is a good example).

vikramkr 6y ago

They know how many have h1bs, but not how many of them are actually in the US. Which is just amazing. We need to bend over and let them take our privacy away so they can fight the terrorists apparently, but the same government doesnt even keep track of how many h1b holders are in the country? If the data of who every citizen is calling on their phones is so important for national security- how is it not worth the government's time to collect and analyze data to figure out who is actually in the country?

arcticbull 6y ago
Especially since the government gets from all non-immigrants: - Common carrier arrival manifests. - Visa stamp process arrival record and I-94 issuance. [4] - US-VISIT biometrics collection on arrival. [2] - Form I-9 when starting a new job. [3] - Form AR-11 every time they move. [1] - Common carrier departure manifests. - Tax returns. As far as I can tell the only people who "sneak out" do so by crossing the border into Canada and the US should have access to that data from Canadian authorities after the fact also. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/ar-11 https://www.uscis.gov/ar-11 [2] https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/usvisit/usvisit_edu_traveler_brochure_english.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/usvisit/usvisit_edu_trav... [3] https://www.uscis.gov/i-9 https://www.uscis.gov/i-9 [4] https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/ https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
enraged_camel 6y ago
When was the last time you traveled outside the USA? Did you notice how Customs and Border Patrol did not check and stamp your passport, like they do for incoming travelers? Therefore, since there is no way to detect when an H1B worker leaves the country, there is no easy way to estimate the number of H1Bs currently in the country.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- woobar 6y ago

djhaskin987 6y ago

Clearly you did not read the article. In there it clearly states that it is because there is no electronic tracking system of any kind. They're trying to figure out the estimates based on paper records.

alphachloride 6y ago
I would suggest that you take a look at the guidelines[1] for hacker news, which I believe set a good standard for productive discourse. Particularly: > Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that." [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html