6 ms·

I no longer live in SF, but I found it funny seeing the dissonance of people new to the Bay Area who moved there for a high paying tech startup and then talk ab

by anw 6y ago

I no longer live in SF, but I found it funny seeing the dissonance of people new to the Bay Area who moved there for a high paying tech startup and then talk about how bad gentrification was while being blind to the fact they were doing exactly what they were saying was wrong. Not an exact conversation, but along the lines of what I've run into: Rob: "It's terrible what's happening to these communities. The Mission used to be a haven for artists. Now those people are moving out and it's losing its history" Mayk: "dude, didn't you just move here 2 years ago and have a $2,500 studio in the Mission?" Rob: "Yeah, but it's not like any of those people could have afforded it anyway, so I'm not taking it away from somebody else or anything". SF is a boiling melting pot of many different communities and cultures, and it's interesting to see which cultures people ascribe to while also being part of others that run counter to what ideals they say they believe.

ironmagma 6y ago
The thing is, the fault of all of that rests with the people and the system, but mostly the system. Any individual is not responsible for gentrification, least of all one who just moved to the area. It’s the same principle as that citizens can rightfully criticize the overuse of fossil fuels, even though shutting off their AC would lead to a possible heat stroke.
nick_ 6y ago
This is an example of, as they say, "liberal bullshit". Knowing enough not to be ignorant, but behaving exactly as if they were.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  The key that people who call it “liberal bullshit” never seem to understand is that you can believe there is a problem while being part of the problem. The fact that your existence is evil does not mean you cannot, or should not, advocate for reduction of evil while still existing.
  - nick_ 6y ago
    I fully agree. I just meant that "liberal bullshit" is how conservatives view this kind of thing. In other words, they only see it as hypocritical.
hindsightbias 6y ago
It just doesn’t feel the same when you don’t have to throw grandma and her wheelchair down the steps yourself. All those artists living in Ghost Ship, just what were they thinking?! Nothing to do with me... The difference between an artist and a techie is that the artist does not feel they’re entitled.
- AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
  Sorry, dumb question... but why a grandma could not have been relocated in a slightly more careful way?
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    My feeling based on getting older and watching friend slip into old age. Moving old people is generally bad. What bothers me most about the current state of the city is there have always been waves of people coming in, sometimes staying often eventually leaving. Most of them though came for the city at least partially. And because of that they were willing to accept what it was. But the Web 2.0 Tech Bro's are here for the money and do not accept the city and it's long term residents for that it is. What they want it for all those people to get kicked so more people like them can come here to become rich. You can accept the Hispanics coming into the mission and changing it. The gays coming to Polk St and then moving to the Castro. Even the Dot Bomb kids coming, because back then they could have gone to the south bay or elsewhere. But just for money and a lack of acceptance of the city and it's past? Yeah no.
WWLink 6y ago
The programmers have as much of a right to be there as anyone else does. People who owned their condos and houses weren't pushed out, they usually sold to buy something bigger. That would be practically everyone my parents knew. (Edit: Of course, people who rented apartments for 20 years and then had their rent jacked sky high by a new landlord, that's a different story...) The fun part for me is I was born in SF. My family relocated to a suburb when I was little to get a bigger house. They never could afford to move back. Now that I'm a programmer, I can afford to take us back there! Would I feel guilty about it? Abso-fucking-lutely not. That said, if I were to do that, I'd be buying an old beat up house in outer sunset. The only thing I'd be displacing in that case, are the people who decided to sell it after owning it for 20+ years because they wanted a bigger house in Fairfield or something. (Let's be real though, I can't afford to buy a house in SF at all haha. Maybe a few more years of saving.) I don't know, there's a large gap between "I've got mine, fuck you" and "You must be apologetic for having a good career and being able to afford the rent." Of course, I feel that displacing all the old hole-in-the-wall restaurants for shit like starbucks and panera bread is a disgrace. Especially because I don't eat shit like starbucks or panera bread lol. I'm all about the $5 lunch special at the chinese place. (Although now it's a $20 special!)
- anw 6y ago
  No doubt anyone has a right to be wherever. The issue was not so much who has a right to live where. It was around the attitude of saying one thing while living another.
- ironmagma 6y ago
  Buying a house at SF prices is always contributing to displacement, for in your absence there would be less demand for houses and the prices would be lower.
  - shuckles 6y ago
    This depends on a very liberal interpretation of what "displacement" means.
    - 6y ago

by anw 6y ago

ironmagma 6y ago

The thing is, the fault of all of that rests with the people and the system, but mostly the system. Any individual is not responsible for gentrification, least of all one who just moved to the area. It’s the same principle as that citizens can rightfully criticize the overuse of fossil fuels, even though shutting off their AC would lead to a possible heat stroke.

nick_ 6y ago

This is an example of, as they say, "liberal bullshit". Knowing enough not to be ignorant, but behaving exactly as if they were.

ironmagma 6y ago
The key that people who call it “liberal bullshit” never seem to understand is that you can believe there is a problem while being part of the problem. The fact that your existence is evil does not mean you cannot, or should not, advocate for reduction of evil while still existing.
- nick_ 6y ago
  I fully agree. I just meant that "liberal bullshit" is how conservatives view this kind of thing. In other words, they only see it as hypocritical.

hindsightbias 6y ago

It just doesn’t feel the same when you don’t have to throw grandma and her wheelchair down the steps yourself. All those artists living in Ghost Ship, just what were they thinking?! Nothing to do with me... The difference between an artist and a techie is that the artist does not feel they’re entitled.

AlexTWithBeard 6y ago
Sorry, dumb question... but why a grandma could not have been relocated in a slightly more careful way?
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  My feeling based on getting older and watching friend slip into old age. Moving old people is generally bad. What bothers me most about the current state of the city is there have always been waves of people coming in, sometimes staying often eventually leaving. Most of them though came for the city at least partially. And because of that they were willing to accept what it was. But the Web 2.0 Tech Bro's are here for the money and do not accept the city and it's long term residents for that it is. What they want it for all those people to get kicked so more people like them can come here to become rich. You can accept the Hispanics coming into the mission and changing it. The gays coming to Polk St and then moving to the Castro. Even the Dot Bomb kids coming, because back then they could have gone to the south bay or elsewhere. But just for money and a lack of acceptance of the city and it's past? Yeah no.

WWLink 6y ago

The programmers have as much of a right to be there as anyone else does. People who owned their condos and houses weren't pushed out, they usually sold to buy something bigger. That would be practically everyone my parents knew. (Edit: Of course, people who rented apartments for 20 years and then had their rent jacked sky high by a new landlord, that's a different story...) The fun part for me is I was born in SF. My family relocated to a suburb when I was little to get a bigger house. They never could afford to move back. Now that I'm a programmer, I can afford to take us back there! Would I feel guilty about it? Abso-fucking-lutely not. That said, if I were to do that, I'd be buying an old beat up house in outer sunset. The only thing I'd be displacing in that case, are the people who decided to sell it after owning it for 20+ years because they wanted a bigger house in Fairfield or something. (Let's be real though, I can't afford to buy a house in SF at all haha. Maybe a few more years of saving.) I don't know, there's a large gap between "I've got mine, fuck you" and "You must be apologetic for having a good career and being able to afford the rent." Of course, I feel that displacing all the old hole-in-the-wall restaurants for shit like starbucks and panera bread is a disgrace. Especially because I don't eat shit like starbucks or panera bread lol. I'm all about the $5 lunch special at the chinese place. (Although now it's a $20 special!)

anw 6y ago
No doubt anyone has a right to be wherever. The issue was not so much who has a right to live where. It was around the attitude of saying one thing while living another.
ironmagma 6y ago
Buying a house at SF prices is always contributing to displacement, for in your absence there would be less demand for houses and the prices would be lower.
- shuckles 6y ago
  This depends on a very liberal interpretation of what "displacement" means.
  - 6y ago