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The concern here is that like a dog sniffing a car and barking, the false matches give erroneous probable cause. Combo this with systems that are more likely to

by d_watt 6y ago

The concern here is that like a dog sniffing a car and barking, the false matches give erroneous probable cause. Combo this with systems that are more likely to give false negatives to minorities, and you've created a blackhole of accountability for authoritarian harassment.

Udik 6y ago
But then your problem is with authoritarian harassment, not with facial recognition. If you're fine with the fact that the police can stop and harass random people based on indicators that have a high rate of false positives, then facial recognition is not the first of your issues.
- Infinitesimus 6y ago
  No it isn't the first of our issues. If there is a fire, you don't pour kerosene on it while trying to put it out, right? Adding more tools we know will be abused at a time like this seems like adding fuel to fire and removing accountability from individual actions. You might have a better chance fighting a case where you are stopped for no reason than fighting a case where your car is pulled over because the FR system mistook your blurry face for that of someone else due to poor lighting.
  - Udik 6y ago
    > you don't pour kerosene on it while trying to put it out, right? The fact is that you're not trying to put out the fire (I am talking about the US, as this seems to be first and foremost a US issue). You're actually feeding it, in the conviction that it's the right thing to do. Removing the worst flammable materials is pretty pointless when you have already decided that you want the fire to keep burning because you still think it's for the best. Out of the metaphor, the US police seems to be uniquely prone to escalating conflicts and generally asserting its absolute power because it's expression of the law. From the outside, the US seem to be a society where everyone (starting from the police, down to citizens, criminals, law enforcement and prisons) is encouraged to "stand their ground" up to the highest possible level of conflict, without a space for mediation, forgiveness or oblivion. That is the fire, and the US thinks it's just fine to keep it burning.
User23 6y ago
> you've created a blackhole of accountability for authoritarian harassment Please don't use racially charged metaphors. Instead of "blackhole" prefer neutral terminology such as "denyhole."

by d_watt 6y ago

Udik 6y ago

But then your problem is with authoritarian harassment, not with facial recognition. If you're fine with the fact that the police can stop and harass random people based on indicators that have a high rate of false positives, then facial recognition is not the first of your issues.

Infinitesimus 6y ago
No it isn't the first of our issues. If there is a fire, you don't pour kerosene on it while trying to put it out, right? Adding more tools we know will be abused at a time like this seems like adding fuel to fire and removing accountability from individual actions. You might have a better chance fighting a case where you are stopped for no reason than fighting a case where your car is pulled over because the FR system mistook your blurry face for that of someone else due to poor lighting.
- Udik 6y ago
  > you don't pour kerosene on it while trying to put it out, right? The fact is that you're not trying to put out the fire (I am talking about the US, as this seems to be first and foremost a US issue). You're actually feeding it, in the conviction that it's the right thing to do. Removing the worst flammable materials is pretty pointless when you have already decided that you want the fire to keep burning because you still think it's for the best. Out of the metaphor, the US police seems to be uniquely prone to escalating conflicts and generally asserting its absolute power because it's expression of the law. From the outside, the US seem to be a society where everyone (starting from the police, down to citizens, criminals, law enforcement and prisons) is encouraged to "stand their ground" up to the highest possible level of conflict, without a space for mediation, forgiveness or oblivion. That is the fire, and the US thinks it's just fine to keep it burning.

User23 6y ago

> you've created a blackhole of accountability for authoritarian harassment Please don't use racially charged metaphors. Instead of "blackhole" prefer neutral terminology such as "denyhole."