5 ms·

He keeps using terms like "intelligent", "cautious", "not gullible" to describe his dad but the man bought $3,000 of gift cards because he thought the DEA would

by mdoms 6y ago

He keeps using terms like "intelligent", "cautious", "not gullible" to describe his dad but the man bought $3,000 of gift cards because he thought the DEA would accept them in exchange for not freezing his bank accounts.... the man's a moron. Sorry, but stupid is as stupid does. This is a very very stupid thing to believe.

kube-system 6y ago
As silly as it might sound at face value, smart people can be psychologically manipulated into doing very stupid things.
- jmuguy 6y ago
  I would love to hear the specific script they use to convince people to buy gift cards. Everything leading up to that I can understand someone being suckered into - but how the hell do they convince people that a government agent wants them to buy gift cards?!
  - kube-system 6y ago
    The way con men are successful is usually not by directly convincing people that their scam is legit -- but instead they convince the person that they are trustworthy. Once they're seen as trustworthy, human brains tend to overlook facts, even obvious ones. Confidence scams work on a similar abuse of trust that April Fools jokes do... except they're a lot less funny.
  - walrus01 6y ago
    Some of this has been targeted at recent-immigrant ethnic communities from places where government corruption is endemic. From the point of view of the person being scammed, it actually is plausible that some person working for the IRS is demanding payment via a sketchy method.
  - rgovostes 6y ago
    Didn't RTFA but I know someone who fell for a similar scam. It involved multiple scammers calling them, claiming to be the IRS. They had personal details about the victim (gleaned from public records, no doubt). When the victim agreed to make a payment under threat of arrest, they were told the government doesn't take credit card payments over the phone, but a special agreement with Amazon allowed them to accept gift cards as they are guaranteed value and "as good as cash." From a distance it sounds ridiculous, but it was a surprisingly complex con with multiple participants and enough plausible details to make them seem legitimate. Refusing to take your credit card number over the phone must also disarm victims, what scammer would do so?
    - mdoms 6y ago
      > From a distance it sounds ridiculous Because it is ridiculous. There is nothing you could say that would make that sound legitimate to an otherwise intelligent, cautious person.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        You'd think so, but it is possible to scam intelligent people. Intelligent people are still subject to the same fears, emotions, and cognitive biases and flaws that other people are. If a scammer can successfully harness those human weaknesses, intelligence might not be enough to save someone. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/woman-loses-entire-life-savings-in-wire-fraud-scam/109063/ https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/woman-loses-entire-life...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- mdoms 6y ago
  Sorry but I just don't buy it. I cannot see how it's possible to persuade a smart person to do something incredibly stupid and diametrically opposed to their own interests. I really do believe that only stupid people can be quite so.... uhhh, stupid.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    What if I told you that I can invest your money for a consistent 10-20% return, and I can even make you 5%+ during the 2008 recession. I beat everyone else's returns. The only thing is that I can't tell you exactly how I do it. Of course, an investment scheme this good has to be secret, so we don't do external audits, but my brother audits everything for me. It would take a stupid person to believe a scam like that, wouldn't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_investors_in_Bernard_L._Madoff_Investment_Securities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_investors_in_Bernard_L...
    - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
      Sure, but everyone here is reacting with incredulity at the idea you could make any kind official payment with a stack of gift cards. It's like asking someone to pay their utility bill with Pokemon or MTG cards.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        There are many examples of people who have been interviewed after being scammed who did know better, but did it anyway because they were successfully convinced their situation was a special exception. Gaslighting can really distort reality for some people. While the majority of people who fall for this are elderly and aren’t as sharp as they used to be, they aren’t the only ones who are successfully tricked.
        perl4ever 6y ago
        > they were successfully convinced their situation was a special exception. Gaslighting can really distort reality for some people I mean, every rule does have exceptions. People are wired to think that way, because that's how it is. So manipulation can work by triggering that frame of mind.
cortesoft 6y ago
My gut instinct is to agree with you... but I think we should be a little more sympathetic, since we have so many examples of seeming smart people falling for various scams. I think it is foolish and wishful thinking to think we are immune to being scammed just because we can see through all these ruses when we read about them online. Whenever something bad happens to other people, our immediate first reaction is to find out reasons why it would never happen to us. We wouldn't fall for it, I wouldn't put myself in that situation, I would see it a million miles away, I would have done this instead..... this is a defense mechanism because we don't want to feel vulnerable... we want to think that bad things are preventable, and we would always prevent the bad things. This is simply not realistic, and gets in the way of empathy for people in bad situations. Just think back in your own life when things went wrong, and how looking back there are always things you could have done differently... but you didn't, because you are human and make mistakes and didn't have perfect knowledge of what was going on like you do in hindsight.
- megablast 6y ago
  Do we have a lot of examples of smart people being scammed? There are certainly a lot of old people being scammed.

by mdoms 6y ago

kube-system 6y ago

As silly as it might sound at face value, smart people can be psychologically manipulated into doing very stupid things.

jmuguy 6y ago
I would love to hear the specific script they use to convince people to buy gift cards. Everything leading up to that I can understand someone being suckered into - but how the hell do they convince people that a government agent wants them to buy gift cards?!
- kube-system 6y ago
  The way con men are successful is usually not by directly convincing people that their scam is legit -- but instead they convince the person that they are trustworthy. Once they're seen as trustworthy, human brains tend to overlook facts, even obvious ones. Confidence scams work on a similar abuse of trust that April Fools jokes do... except they're a lot less funny.
- walrus01 6y ago
  Some of this has been targeted at recent-immigrant ethnic communities from places where government corruption is endemic. From the point of view of the person being scammed, it actually is plausible that some person working for the IRS is demanding payment via a sketchy method.
- rgovostes 6y ago
  Didn't RTFA but I know someone who fell for a similar scam. It involved multiple scammers calling them, claiming to be the IRS. They had personal details about the victim (gleaned from public records, no doubt). When the victim agreed to make a payment under threat of arrest, they were told the government doesn't take credit card payments over the phone, but a special agreement with Amazon allowed them to accept gift cards as they are guaranteed value and "as good as cash." From a distance it sounds ridiculous, but it was a surprisingly complex con with multiple participants and enough plausible details to make them seem legitimate. Refusing to take your credit card number over the phone must also disarm victims, what scammer would do so?
  - mdoms 6y ago
    > From a distance it sounds ridiculous Because it is ridiculous. There is nothing you could say that would make that sound legitimate to an otherwise intelligent, cautious person.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      You'd think so, but it is possible to scam intelligent people. Intelligent people are still subject to the same fears, emotions, and cognitive biases and flaws that other people are. If a scammer can successfully harness those human weaknesses, intelligence might not be enough to save someone. https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/woman-loses-entire-life-savings-in-wire-fraud-scam/109063/ https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/woman-loses-entire-life...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
mdoms 6y ago
Sorry but I just don't buy it. I cannot see how it's possible to persuade a smart person to do something incredibly stupid and diametrically opposed to their own interests. I really do believe that only stupid people can be quite so.... uhhh, stupid.
- kube-system 6y ago
  What if I told you that I can invest your money for a consistent 10-20% return, and I can even make you 5%+ during the 2008 recession. I beat everyone else's returns. The only thing is that I can't tell you exactly how I do it. Of course, an investment scheme this good has to be secret, so we don't do external audits, but my brother audits everything for me. It would take a stupid person to believe a scam like that, wouldn't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_investors_in_Bernard_L._Madoff_Investment_Securities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_investors_in_Bernard_L...
  - blacksmith_tb 6y ago
    Sure, but everyone here is reacting with incredulity at the idea you could make any kind official payment with a stack of gift cards. It's like asking someone to pay their utility bill with Pokemon or MTG cards.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      There are many examples of people who have been interviewed after being scammed who did know better, but did it anyway because they were successfully convinced their situation was a special exception. Gaslighting can really distort reality for some people. While the majority of people who fall for this are elderly and aren’t as sharp as they used to be, they aren’t the only ones who are successfully tricked.
      - perl4ever 6y ago
        > they were successfully convinced their situation was a special exception. Gaslighting can really distort reality for some people I mean, every rule does have exceptions. People are wired to think that way, because that's how it is. So manipulation can work by triggering that frame of mind.

cortesoft 6y ago

My gut instinct is to agree with you... but I think we should be a little more sympathetic, since we have so many examples of seeming smart people falling for various scams. I think it is foolish and wishful thinking to think we are immune to being scammed just because we can see through all these ruses when we read about them online. Whenever something bad happens to other people, our immediate first reaction is to find out reasons why it would never happen to us. We wouldn't fall for it, I wouldn't put myself in that situation, I would see it a million miles away, I would have done this instead..... this is a defense mechanism because we don't want to feel vulnerable... we want to think that bad things are preventable, and we would always prevent the bad things. This is simply not realistic, and gets in the way of empathy for people in bad situations. Just think back in your own life when things went wrong, and how looking back there are always things you could have done differently... but you didn't, because you are human and make mistakes and didn't have perfect knowledge of what was going on like you do in hindsight.

megablast 6y ago
Do we have a lot of examples of smart people being scammed? There are certainly a lot of old people being scammed.