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Both India and China are market economies. Market economies have the property that certain people can succeed wildly, but also that certain people are left beh

Both India and China are market economies. Market economies have the property that certain people can succeed wildly, but also that certain people are left behind. This explains why people leave. How exactly would you build a country that was politically resistant to outside interference from countries that are much wealthier than it? This is a genuine question.

cscurmudgeon 6y ago
That is false. India was a socialist nightmare. Only recently has it switched to a market economy. It is still recovering and will take decades to recover. This is all well-known. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalisation_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalisation_in_Ind... China recently lost its legal status as a market economy. https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/china-loses-wto-dispute-against-eu-for-market-economy-status/articleshow/76494302.cms https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/china-lose... I thought these were well known. If you are willing to rectify this, I am willing to engage more, but respectfully decline to continue further otherwise. > How exactly would you build a country that was politically resistant to outside interference from countries that are much wealthier than it? This is a genuine question You can’t that’s why pure communism/socialism is a disaster almost always. A better question is why other countries with US interference like Japan and South Korea have ended up being much more richer than before. North Korea without any US interference is much much poorer. (It is almost like a controlled experiment) Why is that?
- pmiller2 6y ago
  I am aware of this. India has been a market economy since the 90s. Is almost 30 years not enough for the magic of markets to improve the situation? Regarding China, "legal status" is irrelevant. Prices in China are set via market mechanisms. That is a market economy, period. Your link boils down to this: > According to the EU, China subsidizes its industries to a great extent, particularly steel and aluminum, making their sales prices in the international market unfair. This is essentially saying China is using market mechanisms that the EU does not like. Moreover, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_market_economy#Market_socialism_versus_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_market_economy#Marke..., "Julan Du and Chenggang Xu analyzed the Chinese model in a 2005 paper to assess whether it represents a type of market socialism or capitalism. They concluded that China's contemporary economic system represents a form of capitalism rather than market socialism...." Rectified. In response to your edit: "Currently a majority of North Koreans are dependent on markets for their survival." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangmadang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangmadang. North Korea is also a market economy. In what way has the US interfered in South Korea or Japan since 1950? How does that compare to being sanctioned and embargoed by every major Western nation? Would you like to hear about Cuba instead?
  - cscurmudgeon 6y ago
    > Is almost 30 years not enough for the magic of markets to improve the situation We are leaving out the 300 years of colonialism. And 50 years of socialism. 30 years is not enough to move a billion people out of the ills of socialism and colonialism The US stopped interfering in South America by the 90s. By your own logic, how long do the socialist countries in South America need to recover from US interference? 10 years? 30 years? 100 years? 1000 years? >In response to your edit: "Currently a majority of North Koreans are dependent on markets for their survival." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangmadang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangmadang. North Korea is also a market economy. You are missing the point here. The illicit market economy is what is helping them survive the legal socialist economy. Thank the market economy for saving the NK. > In what way has the US interfered in South Korea or Japan since 1950? How does that compare to being sanctioned and embargoed by every major Western nation? Would you like to hear about Cuba instead? Care to tell me first how the US has interfered in Mexico?
    - dang 6y ago
      Please stop. Ideological and nationalistic flamewar on the internet is tedious, predictable, and therefore off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - dang 6y ago
    Please stop. Ideological and nationalistic flamewar on the internet is tedious, predictable, and therefore off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - pmiller2 6y ago
      Which part offends: my defense of the claim that India, China, and North Korea are market economies, or the part about how the US interferes in other nations' affairs? Can you be more specific as to what I'm to stop? Did I not mention UBI and land value taxes enough, or something?

cscurmudgeon 6y ago

That is false. India was a socialist nightmare. Only recently has it switched to a market economy. It is still recovering and will take decades to recover. This is all well-known. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalisation_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalisation_in_Ind... China recently lost its legal status as a market economy. https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/china-loses-wto-dispute-against-eu-for-market-economy-status/articleshow/76494302.cms https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/china-lose... I thought these were well known. If you are willing to rectify this, I am willing to engage more, but respectfully decline to continue further otherwise. > How exactly would you build a country that was politically resistant to outside interference from countries that are much wealthier than it? This is a genuine question You can’t that’s why pure communism/socialism is a disaster almost always. A better question is why other countries with US interference like Japan and South Korea have ended up being much more richer than before. North Korea without any US interference is much much poorer. (It is almost like a controlled experiment) Why is that?

pmiller2 6y ago
I am aware of this. India has been a market economy since the 90s. Is almost 30 years not enough for the magic of markets to improve the situation? Regarding China, "legal status" is irrelevant. Prices in China are set via market mechanisms. That is a market economy, period. Your link boils down to this: > According to the EU, China subsidizes its industries to a great extent, particularly steel and aluminum, making their sales prices in the international market unfair. This is essentially saying China is using market mechanisms that the EU does not like. Moreover, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_market_economy#Market_socialism_versus_capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_market_economy#Marke..., "Julan Du and Chenggang Xu analyzed the Chinese model in a 2005 paper to assess whether it represents a type of market socialism or capitalism. They concluded that China's contemporary economic system represents a form of capitalism rather than market socialism...." Rectified. In response to your edit: "Currently a majority of North Koreans are dependent on markets for their survival." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangmadang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangmadang. North Korea is also a market economy. In what way has the US interfered in South Korea or Japan since 1950? How does that compare to being sanctioned and embargoed by every major Western nation? Would you like to hear about Cuba instead?
- cscurmudgeon 6y ago
  > Is almost 30 years not enough for the magic of markets to improve the situation We are leaving out the 300 years of colonialism. And 50 years of socialism. 30 years is not enough to move a billion people out of the ills of socialism and colonialism The US stopped interfering in South America by the 90s. By your own logic, how long do the socialist countries in South America need to recover from US interference? 10 years? 30 years? 100 years? 1000 years? >In response to your edit: "Currently a majority of North Koreans are dependent on markets for their survival." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangmadang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jangmadang. North Korea is also a market economy. You are missing the point here. The illicit market economy is what is helping them survive the legal socialist economy. Thank the market economy for saving the NK. > In what way has the US interfered in South Korea or Japan since 1950? How does that compare to being sanctioned and embargoed by every major Western nation? Would you like to hear about Cuba instead? Care to tell me first how the US has interfered in Mexico?
  - dang 6y ago
    Please stop. Ideological and nationalistic flamewar on the internet is tedious, predictable, and therefore off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 6y ago
  Please stop. Ideological and nationalistic flamewar on the internet is tedious, predictable, and therefore off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - pmiller2 6y ago
    Which part offends: my defense of the claim that India, China, and North Korea are market economies, or the part about how the US interferes in other nations' affairs? Can you be more specific as to what I'm to stop? Did I not mention UBI and land value taxes enough, or something?