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The idea that girls can’t be inspired by male scientists is extremely sexist. > Parents mock geeks. I was a kid nerd. I was mocked. (And bullied too, but I’ll

by tomp 6y ago

The idea that girls can’t be inspired by male scientists is extremely sexist. > Parents mock geeks. I was a kid nerd. I was mocked. (And bullied too, but I’ll take that one for the team.) Trust me, there was absolutely no encouragement provided for me, except by a few geeky teachers. If girls receive(d) approximately zero encouragement, that sounds like equality to me (though not how things should be!). The idea of geeks being cool, rich and popular is very recent, brought to you by the likes of Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, and Big Bang Theory.

hintymad 6y ago
> The idea that girls can’t be inspired by male scientists is extremely sexist. You're right. I somehow fell into the framework set by the progressives. Any gender can do STEM, and the country I came from ensures that such message is loud and clear. Having female role models helps, but that's beside the point.
cycomanic 6y ago
> The idea that girls can’t be inspired by male scientists is extremely sexist. Nobody said that they can't be, that's a straw man. But there is a difference between not being inspired by male scientists and never having a female scientist mentioned to you. > > Parents mock geeks. > I was a kid nerd. I was mocked. (And bullied too, but I’ll take that one for the team.) Trust me, there was absolutely no encouragement provided for me, except by a few geeky teachers. If girls receive(d) approximately zero encouragement, that sounds like equality to me (though not how things should be!). The idea of geeks being cool, rich and popular is very recent, brought to you by the likes of Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, and Big Bang Theory. I don't think the OP was only talking about female geeks but in general. Regarding bullying, I agree it's a big problem, however girls tend to have another issue to fight with, which is being told (by teachers, parents, and other geeks...) from very early on that they are not good at science/math. So imagine being bullied for geekiness and at the same time being told that you can't really do that think you like.
- nec4b 6y ago
  Where do you live that teachers tell girls they are not good with science/math? Even when I went to school ages ago, nobody ever said anything like that to girls in my classes.
  - cycomanic 6y ago
    I heard it said to girls in my class in Germany (this was in the 80/90s), the teacher in question when challenged said that it was an obvious joke and the girls just can't take humour. I know quite a lot of women (both in science fields and ones who did not go into science because of this) who told me that they were told this. I have read it repeatedly on reddit/HN and others by people (in particular those who call themselves geeks/nerds) who argued women and girls are not good at science. Also one thing I learnt when talking to female colleagues and friends, is that some things we just don't see/hear, because they are said in private, e.g. in teacher meetings...
    - nec4b 6y ago
      Where I went to school almost all of the teachers were women. In fact teaching profession here as a whole has been dominated by women for a very long time now. Seems a bit illogical girls would be commonly told to be unfit for science. Do you think the situation is different in Germany, because you have more vocational oriented education and probably more male teachers?
      - cycomanic 6y ago
        Education in Germany is a bit special, i.e. there are three different "tiers" of schools. The school to be able to go to university (and to which I went) is called Gymnasium and is not and in my experience (I went to a US high-school for a year as a Senior) is less vocationally oriented than US high-schools at least. While teachers being largely female is also true in Germany, the distribution depends on schools, elementary school (grade 1-4) teachers are by vast majority women, but when it comes to the Gymnasium the distribution is somewhat more even (maybe 60/40 in my time). However teachers for STEM subjects (math, physics, chemistry) are still mainly men. Moreover, I know several women who were told by women, e.g. their mothers, that girls are not good at STEM. Just to say the discouragement doesn't just come from men.

by tomp 6y ago

hintymad 6y ago

> The idea that girls can’t be inspired by male scientists is extremely sexist. You're right. I somehow fell into the framework set by the progressives. Any gender can do STEM, and the country I came from ensures that such message is loud and clear. Having female role models helps, but that's beside the point.

cycomanic 6y ago

> The idea that girls can’t be inspired by male scientists is extremely sexist. Nobody said that they can't be, that's a straw man. But there is a difference between not being inspired by male scientists and never having a female scientist mentioned to you. > > Parents mock geeks. > I was a kid nerd. I was mocked. (And bullied too, but I’ll take that one for the team.) Trust me, there was absolutely no encouragement provided for me, except by a few geeky teachers. If girls receive(d) approximately zero encouragement, that sounds like equality to me (though not how things should be!). The idea of geeks being cool, rich and popular is very recent, brought to you by the likes of Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, and Big Bang Theory. I don't think the OP was only talking about female geeks but in general. Regarding bullying, I agree it's a big problem, however girls tend to have another issue to fight with, which is being told (by teachers, parents, and other geeks...) from very early on that they are not good at science/math. So imagine being bullied for geekiness and at the same time being told that you can't really do that think you like.

nec4b 6y ago
Where do you live that teachers tell girls they are not good with science/math? Even when I went to school ages ago, nobody ever said anything like that to girls in my classes.
- cycomanic 6y ago
  I heard it said to girls in my class in Germany (this was in the 80/90s), the teacher in question when challenged said that it was an obvious joke and the girls just can't take humour. I know quite a lot of women (both in science fields and ones who did not go into science because of this) who told me that they were told this. I have read it repeatedly on reddit/HN and others by people (in particular those who call themselves geeks/nerds) who argued women and girls are not good at science. Also one thing I learnt when talking to female colleagues and friends, is that some things we just don't see/hear, because they are said in private, e.g. in teacher meetings...
  - nec4b 6y ago
    Where I went to school almost all of the teachers were women. In fact teaching profession here as a whole has been dominated by women for a very long time now. Seems a bit illogical girls would be commonly told to be unfit for science. Do you think the situation is different in Germany, because you have more vocational oriented education and probably more male teachers?
    - cycomanic 6y ago
      Education in Germany is a bit special, i.e. there are three different "tiers" of schools. The school to be able to go to university (and to which I went) is called Gymnasium and is not and in my experience (I went to a US high-school for a year as a Senior) is less vocationally oriented than US high-schools at least. While teachers being largely female is also true in Germany, the distribution depends on schools, elementary school (grade 1-4) teachers are by vast majority women, but when it comes to the Gymnasium the distribution is somewhat more even (maybe 60/40 in my time). However teachers for STEM subjects (math, physics, chemistry) are still mainly men. Moreover, I know several women who were told by women, e.g. their mothers, that girls are not good at STEM. Just to say the discouragement doesn't just come from men.