4 ms·

I use a gig to hire process for this. It works very well. I've been meaning to write more about it but I also get income for helping with hiring around this mod

by edoceo 6y ago

I use a gig to hire process for this. It works very well. I've been meaning to write more about it but I also get income for helping with hiring around this model so im a bit conflicted. The whole answer is long and complex. Basically: give candidate a proper task on your project and evaluate them based on that work - the "interview" is less than an hour, the "work" is longer (many hours (and you pay for it)) - provides a solid evaluation across their skill-set

monksy 6y ago
> and you pay for it But just think about all of those business people that want free work and to hire people that are willing to throw themselves in to the project for no extra comp. /s I agree.. also that sets boundaries.
- edoceo 6y ago
  I filter those jerks out before even letting them see my candidates. Step #1 is for me to work with the company to find the project slice - which they also have to comp my time. So they spend more time and cash on the traditional method...then complain about a lack of talent. Resume keyword filters and non-technical recruiters are a (not) surprising waste.
fredophile 6y ago
That will work for some people but not everyone. At my current job I can't monetize work I do outside the company without approval. That means I can't go through you application process unless I quit first. Even if I was allowed to do this I don't think I'd want to. The time commitment of an extra project on top of my normal workload is not something I want.
- novok 6y ago
  Not to mention people on work visas who cannot legally do that either.
- wolco 6y ago
  No that means once you start receiving money you have to disclose. The application process is fine.
- nogabebop23 6y ago
  what if they "give" you a gift card after you submit? I've had that before, where the gitft card was essentially paypal credit. Not wanting to do an extra project is the second part of this problem - the best people already have jobs and aren't looking, so they're not going to spend all their free time working on high-effort job applications.
  - fredophile 6y ago
    I can't speak for my employer but the IRS certainly views gift cards and similar cash equivalent payments to be taxable income.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - edoceo 6y ago
      Correct. And if the IRS calls it income then, odds are, your current employer would consider it the same
- edoceo 6y ago
  All hiring process have the some-not-all problem. This process is just a different set for "some". Remember though it's a some-some problem on both sides too. I think it's sometimes called the "secretary problem".
- nawgszy 6y ago
  Well, then you can just work out a deal to not monetize it. Your objection is of course valid - extra workload on top of a normal job probably has its limits. But the fact one is willing to pay those who are willing to be paid for such an interview doesn't suddenly make it a strict requirement ha. I must say though, I also view the interview standard I've faced - quick phone screen, 1h tech screen, 4-6h onsite (probably online now) - as adding up to a lot of time very quickly, especially as the "onsite" time is of course awkward when it means you take PTO to go to an interview. In this sense, I'd probably rather have an ~8-12h coding task than a 4-6h onsite. Maybe even a higher factor
  - scarface74 6y ago
    It’s one day for the tech screen and one day for the on-site. Of course it’s more of you have to travel.
- dredmorbius 6y ago
  An employment process which prohibits common methods of job searching might well be found anticompetitive and hence unenforceable. Or straight-up illegal.
- flak48 6y ago
  What if they donated to a charity of your choice instead of paying you.
protonimitate 6y ago
I'm curious - what's the conversion ratio for this? I like the idea of this but can't help but think it's ripe for being taken advantage of (on both sides). Have you had trouble with converting to full time offers? Have you had candidates "waste" time/money by severely under-performing or not finishing tasks?
- edoceo 6y ago
  Most applicants fail out but are still comped. For a business the cost to make the hire is the same, the time commitment is much less and the candidate fit is more accurate
scarface74 6y ago
So unless you are paying an above local market rate, why would I as an in demand developer go through that when I could do one phone screen and one in person interview and get a job that pays just as much? My entire interview process for BigTech was only six hours and because of Covid, it was fully remote.
- edoceo 6y ago
  There is a very wide range of openings and talent out there. And of course you're aware that one uses different tools for different needs right? There's plenty of room for those who aren't so ace like you to land that AWS gig in six hours.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Before the AWS gig, I was a bog standard “Enterprise Developer” or Architect depending on the month of the year doing yet another software as a service CRUD app bumping around in mostly small local companies that no one had ever heard of. When I was looking for a job in 2016 locally, I emailed a bunch of local external recruiters and was juggling eight or nine openings. I did six phone screens in one day from different companies. I was no special snowflake. Anyone who could call themselves a “full stack developer” with 5 years of experience could do the same thing. Heck, I didn’t know any of the $coolkids front end frameworks. The process was the same - one phone screen, a half day in person where you spoke about your past projects, maybe did a coding test that was barely above FizzBuzz level of complexity and show that you know SQL. A local full stack developer who had any kind of experience could get the “right now” job within a month if they weren’t being picky. Of course post-Covid, things are different. So either way. If you are looking for framework developers (no insult intended - that’s what I was as a developer until recently) the process is easy if you’re any good. If you are looking for “smart people” (tm). They are able to do the leetCode monkey dance. Who is left that is willing to spend hours doing take home tests? All of the best candidates know how to play one game or the other.
    - edoceo 6y ago
      > Who is left that is willing to spend hours doing take home tests? I've used this process to help place entry level all the way to C-Level -- maybe I've not provided enough details (it's more than just a simple test) or maybe you're over-simplifying the process? It's not a perfect process (hiring in general is still looking for that) and clearly it's not the right process for you. I'm happy you found a job you enjoy.
TurkishPoptart 6y ago
I'd love to interview at your company :D

by edoceo 6y ago

monksy 6y ago

> and you pay for it But just think about all of those business people that want free work and to hire people that are willing to throw themselves in to the project for no extra comp. /s I agree.. also that sets boundaries.

edoceo 6y ago
I filter those jerks out before even letting them see my candidates. Step #1 is for me to work with the company to find the project slice - which they also have to comp my time. So they spend more time and cash on the traditional method...then complain about a lack of talent. Resume keyword filters and non-technical recruiters are a (not) surprising waste.

fredophile 6y ago

That will work for some people but not everyone. At my current job I can't monetize work I do outside the company without approval. That means I can't go through you application process unless I quit first. Even if I was allowed to do this I don't think I'd want to. The time commitment of an extra project on top of my normal workload is not something I want.

novok 6y ago
Not to mention people on work visas who cannot legally do that either.
wolco 6y ago
No that means once you start receiving money you have to disclose. The application process is fine.
nogabebop23 6y ago
what if they "give" you a gift card after you submit? I've had that before, where the gitft card was essentially paypal credit. Not wanting to do an extra project is the second part of this problem - the best people already have jobs and aren't looking, so they're not going to spend all their free time working on high-effort job applications.
- fredophile 6y ago
  I can't speak for my employer but the IRS certainly views gift cards and similar cash equivalent payments to be taxable income.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - edoceo 6y ago
    Correct. And if the IRS calls it income then, odds are, your current employer would consider it the same
edoceo 6y ago
All hiring process have the some-not-all problem. This process is just a different set for "some". Remember though it's a some-some problem on both sides too. I think it's sometimes called the "secretary problem".
nawgszy 6y ago
Well, then you can just work out a deal to not monetize it. Your objection is of course valid - extra workload on top of a normal job probably has its limits. But the fact one is willing to pay those who are willing to be paid for such an interview doesn't suddenly make it a strict requirement ha. I must say though, I also view the interview standard I've faced - quick phone screen, 1h tech screen, 4-6h onsite (probably online now) - as adding up to a lot of time very quickly, especially as the "onsite" time is of course awkward when it means you take PTO to go to an interview. In this sense, I'd probably rather have an ~8-12h coding task than a 4-6h onsite. Maybe even a higher factor
- scarface74 6y ago
  It’s one day for the tech screen and one day for the on-site. Of course it’s more of you have to travel.
dredmorbius 6y ago
An employment process which prohibits common methods of job searching might well be found anticompetitive and hence unenforceable. Or straight-up illegal.
flak48 6y ago
What if they donated to a charity of your choice instead of paying you.

protonimitate 6y ago

I'm curious - what's the conversion ratio for this? I like the idea of this but can't help but think it's ripe for being taken advantage of (on both sides). Have you had trouble with converting to full time offers? Have you had candidates "waste" time/money by severely under-performing or not finishing tasks?

edoceo 6y ago
Most applicants fail out but are still comped. For a business the cost to make the hire is the same, the time commitment is much less and the candidate fit is more accurate

scarface74 6y ago

So unless you are paying an above local market rate, why would I as an in demand developer go through that when I could do one phone screen and one in person interview and get a job that pays just as much? My entire interview process for BigTech was only six hours and because of Covid, it was fully remote.

edoceo 6y ago
There is a very wide range of openings and talent out there. And of course you're aware that one uses different tools for different needs right? There's plenty of room for those who aren't so ace like you to land that AWS gig in six hours.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Before the AWS gig, I was a bog standard “Enterprise Developer” or Architect depending on the month of the year doing yet another software as a service CRUD app bumping around in mostly small local companies that no one had ever heard of. When I was looking for a job in 2016 locally, I emailed a bunch of local external recruiters and was juggling eight or nine openings. I did six phone screens in one day from different companies. I was no special snowflake. Anyone who could call themselves a “full stack developer” with 5 years of experience could do the same thing. Heck, I didn’t know any of the $coolkids front end frameworks. The process was the same - one phone screen, a half day in person where you spoke about your past projects, maybe did a coding test that was barely above FizzBuzz level of complexity and show that you know SQL. A local full stack developer who had any kind of experience could get the “right now” job within a month if they weren’t being picky. Of course post-Covid, things are different. So either way. If you are looking for framework developers (no insult intended - that’s what I was as a developer until recently) the process is easy if you’re any good. If you are looking for “smart people” (tm). They are able to do the leetCode monkey dance. Who is left that is willing to spend hours doing take home tests? All of the best candidates know how to play one game or the other.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    > Who is left that is willing to spend hours doing take home tests? I've used this process to help place entry level all the way to C-Level -- maybe I've not provided enough details (it's more than just a simple test) or maybe you're over-simplifying the process? It's not a perfect process (hiring in general is still looking for that) and clearly it's not the right process for you. I'm happy you found a job you enjoy.

TurkishPoptart 6y ago

I'd love to interview at your company :D