4 ms·

I find it completely absurd that so many people are happy about remote classrooms. Online videos and assignments at most top universities have been available f

by screye 6y ago

I find it completely absurd that so many people are happy about remote classrooms. Online videos and assignments at most top universities have been available for free for years now. Universities are entirely about the advantage of learning in person, peer groups and signalling. If the value of university when remote remains the same for your major/university, then it is a scathing indictment of the in-classroom experience the major/university offered. If I found myself in such a situation, the first thing I would do is un-enroll and reflect on the stupid financial decisions I've made. I hope this is a wake up call for middling private universities and non-lucrative majors that can be easily made remote. A $100k+ fee for something that can be accessed online for free without any real loss in value is highway robbery.

albntomat0 6y ago
There is some amount of capture of returning students. Due to the difficulties of transferring, it may be easier and collectively cheaper for a senior to return for their final year.
vkou 6y ago
> Online videos and assignments at most top universities have been available for free for years now. Universities are entirely about the advantage of learning in person, peer groups and signalling. If anyone seriously doubts this, consider that pretty much any young person in America can just walk into a university lecture hall, and sit through all the classes they could ever wish for, without paying a cent. [1] Nobody takes attendance, and if you look like a student, nobody's going to notice that you're not actually enrolled in the class. And yet, nobody actually does this! Instead, millions of people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition, so that their attendance will be officially recorded. Those people aren't stupid. They aren't paying for the education, they are paying for everything besides the education. [1] Okay, it may cost you a few hundred dollars per year to buy second-hand, old-edition books, if you can't be arsed to study at the university library. This is much less of a financial hurdle than having the luxury to devote 20-40 hours/week on attending classes, and doing classwork.
- hansvm 6y ago
  > Universities are entirely about the advantage of learning in person, peer groups and signalling. As long as "learning in person" includes one-on-one time with your professors and access to a university library I agree with you 100%. > without paying a cent It's pretty easy to get into hot water with the university if you have any legal ties to them (e.g. by having been a student). It's common to require some fraction of ordinary tuition to sit in on classes. > Nobody takes attendance, and if you look like a student, nobody's going to notice that you're not actually enrolled in the class. Enough people do take attendance, or at least take a look at the roster ahead of time (in smaller classes). I had a better success rate speaking with the professor ahead of time and asking if they minded. It's also worth mentioning that not all professors are willing to put in extra one-on-one time with an unofficial student. > nobody actually does this Admittedly the slip of paper at the end was important to me, but I saved a little money taking some of the classes I wanted unofficially, and I wasn't the only person in my university peer group to do so. It was also a nice way to sidestep some bureaucratic prerequisite issues for classes outside my major.
  - vkou 6y ago
    Many university libraries don't check ID at the door, and many paying students don't take advantage of 1:1 professor or TA office hours. Yes, this sort of thing is discouraged - but my point is that anyone who wanted to learn what is being taught in CALC 405, or what-have-you can currently do so, under the table, for essentially free.
    - hansvm 6y ago
      I totally agree that anyone who wants to learn the contents of most courses can do so for free, including the 1:1 interactions, networking, and library access (many universities not only don't check ID but actively encourage the broader community to visit and research). My argument was a mild push-back, pointing out that it's more difficult in some respects (e.g., you might not have access to some of your preferred professors), and that it _does_ actually happen occasionally. Do you have any insight into why more people don't take advantage of that opportunity? Anecdotally, before I attended university I didn't value a college education beyond the slip of paper at the end, and even if I had wanted just the education without the degree I wouldn't have known that I could just sit in on my classes.
mberning 6y ago
I think people selfishly like many aspects of the covid lockdown. But they may regret it later. I know many school teachers that have enjoyed a very light workload this spring and are rooting for something similar in the fall. It may go on for a while, but at some point administrators and tax payers will realize there is no reason to pay for so many teacher salaries. It’s going to be rough.

by screye 6y ago

albntomat0 6y ago

There is some amount of capture of returning students. Due to the difficulties of transferring, it may be easier and collectively cheaper for a senior to return for their final year.

vkou 6y ago

> Online videos and assignments at most top universities have been available for free for years now. Universities are entirely about the advantage of learning in person, peer groups and signalling. If anyone seriously doubts this, consider that pretty much any young person in America can just walk into a university lecture hall, and sit through all the classes they could ever wish for, without paying a cent. [1] Nobody takes attendance, and if you look like a student, nobody's going to notice that you're not actually enrolled in the class. And yet, nobody actually does this! Instead, millions of people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition, so that their attendance will be officially recorded. Those people aren't stupid. They aren't paying for the education, they are paying for everything besides the education. [1] Okay, it may cost you a few hundred dollars per year to buy second-hand, old-edition books, if you can't be arsed to study at the university library. This is much less of a financial hurdle than having the luxury to devote 20-40 hours/week on attending classes, and doing classwork.

hansvm 6y ago
> Universities are entirely about the advantage of learning in person, peer groups and signalling. As long as "learning in person" includes one-on-one time with your professors and access to a university library I agree with you 100%. > without paying a cent It's pretty easy to get into hot water with the university if you have any legal ties to them (e.g. by having been a student). It's common to require some fraction of ordinary tuition to sit in on classes. > Nobody takes attendance, and if you look like a student, nobody's going to notice that you're not actually enrolled in the class. Enough people do take attendance, or at least take a look at the roster ahead of time (in smaller classes). I had a better success rate speaking with the professor ahead of time and asking if they minded. It's also worth mentioning that not all professors are willing to put in extra one-on-one time with an unofficial student. > nobody actually does this Admittedly the slip of paper at the end was important to me, but I saved a little money taking some of the classes I wanted unofficially, and I wasn't the only person in my university peer group to do so. It was also a nice way to sidestep some bureaucratic prerequisite issues for classes outside my major.
- vkou 6y ago
  Many university libraries don't check ID at the door, and many paying students don't take advantage of 1:1 professor or TA office hours. Yes, this sort of thing is discouraged - but my point is that anyone who wanted to learn what is being taught in CALC 405, or what-have-you can currently do so, under the table, for essentially free.
  - hansvm 6y ago
    I totally agree that anyone who wants to learn the contents of most courses can do so for free, including the 1:1 interactions, networking, and library access (many universities not only don't check ID but actively encourage the broader community to visit and research). My argument was a mild push-back, pointing out that it's more difficult in some respects (e.g., you might not have access to some of your preferred professors), and that it _does_ actually happen occasionally. Do you have any insight into why more people don't take advantage of that opportunity? Anecdotally, before I attended university I didn't value a college education beyond the slip of paper at the end, and even if I had wanted just the education without the degree I wouldn't have known that I could just sit in on my classes.

mberning 6y ago

I think people selfishly like many aspects of the covid lockdown. But they may regret it later. I know many school teachers that have enjoyed a very light workload this spring and are rooting for something similar in the fall. It may go on for a while, but at some point administrators and tax payers will realize there is no reason to pay for so many teacher salaries. It’s going to be rough.