5 ms·

I think many folks here didn't actually read the article, which addresses some of these questions. Dopamine is a learning marker that is a precursor to rewards.

I think many folks here didn't actually read the article, which addresses some of these questions. Dopamine is a learning marker that is a precursor to rewards. The first time you get the big reward, there is no dopamine, but you also might not remember it particularly well. The next time you are engaged in a behavior the previously gave you a reward, you get a hit of dopamine which helps you pay extra attention to the details surrounding the reward hit. That is, it is the habit drug. It helps you remember the precise nature of recurrent rewards, and presumably is "intended" to help you get better are arriving at the reward.

k__ 6y ago
Ah, so the idea isn't that dopamin makes you feel good, but that "when" you feel good dopamin tries to help you to get this feeling quicker the next time in that context. Makes much more sense now, thanks!
- 488643689 6y ago
  Dopamine is part of pleasure too, but most importantly it's "anticipation of reward" or how long you can focus on an action until your brain evaluates the result. This is what's broken in ADHD and why people affected profit from increasing dopamine with some stimulants.
Igelau 6y ago
> many folks here didn't actually read the article I've seen some dreck on PsychologyToday. After the author used a weak metaphor as an excuse to lead the article with Kim Kardashian's bust, and slammed other opinions as "kindergarten brain science", I didn't bother to see if there was anything subtle or worthwhile here. It's not the fault of readers if most of them were alienated quickly and bailed out. It's the fault of poor writing and editing that were indicative of time being wasted.
jariel 6y ago
So this is very insightful. Is this why activities associated with bad 'dopamine habits' are so strongly correlated with said the bad habits that involved dopamine? After having quit smoking, I find myself desperately wanting to do the 'break thing' whereby you stop what you're doing, take 5 minutes to just stand, relax and and enjoy the moment for a second while ignoring the stress. I honestly don't even think I want the cigarette, just everything else about that experience.
- giantrobot 6y ago
  I think that's adjacency rather than dopamine specifically. Unfortunately for you the "break thing" is adjacent to "cigarette". For whatever time you did the "break thing" with a cigarette you encoded a lot of behavioral and environmental memories together. So even after the chemical addition to the nicotine fades you're still associating the desirable "break thing" aspects with a cigarette. Parallel universe you (possibly with a goatee) that did the "break thing" but never smoked during a break will want to take a break but has no association with cigarettes or smoking. Their desire for a break remains, maybe with the same strength, but with no desire for a cigarette.
  - buu700 6y ago
    On a related note, this just reminded me that back in college, whenever I felt like taking a break from working, I would suggest to my smoker friends that we take a "smoke break" despite that I've never smoked a cigarette in my life. (In hindsight I probably shouldn't have been encouraging a harmful drug addiction, but it was more tongue-in-cheek than anything.)
fortran77 6y ago
> I think many folks here didn't actually read the article On Hacker News? Not likely. Everyone's a well informed 10xer who doesn't just go shooting his mouth off with the first thought that pops into his mind.
- lucas_membrane 6y ago
  Why would a HN reader read a Psychology Today article? About half the articles in there look like they have to be wrong, and most of the remainder are unconvincing. The HN comments are not always faultless, but they are reliably redolent of authority. I'll always take the straight line path to the dopamine.
  - james_s_tayler 6y ago
    I've learned to avoid Psychology Today.
hnick 6y ago
Is there a known opposite? A drug/chemical that teaches us "don't do that"? I assume there is something more than just the pain and memories we get from touching a hot pan, but I've never heard it given a name.

k__ 6y ago

Ah, so the idea isn't that dopamin makes you feel good, but that "when" you feel good dopamin tries to help you to get this feeling quicker the next time in that context. Makes much more sense now, thanks!

488643689 6y ago
Dopamine is part of pleasure too, but most importantly it's "anticipation of reward" or how long you can focus on an action until your brain evaluates the result. This is what's broken in ADHD and why people affected profit from increasing dopamine with some stimulants.

Igelau 6y ago

> many folks here didn't actually read the article I've seen some dreck on PsychologyToday. After the author used a weak metaphor as an excuse to lead the article with Kim Kardashian's bust, and slammed other opinions as "kindergarten brain science", I didn't bother to see if there was anything subtle or worthwhile here. It's not the fault of readers if most of them were alienated quickly and bailed out. It's the fault of poor writing and editing that were indicative of time being wasted.

jariel 6y ago

So this is very insightful. Is this why activities associated with bad 'dopamine habits' are so strongly correlated with said the bad habits that involved dopamine? After having quit smoking, I find myself desperately wanting to do the 'break thing' whereby you stop what you're doing, take 5 minutes to just stand, relax and and enjoy the moment for a second while ignoring the stress. I honestly don't even think I want the cigarette, just everything else about that experience.

giantrobot 6y ago
I think that's adjacency rather than dopamine specifically. Unfortunately for you the "break thing" is adjacent to "cigarette". For whatever time you did the "break thing" with a cigarette you encoded a lot of behavioral and environmental memories together. So even after the chemical addition to the nicotine fades you're still associating the desirable "break thing" aspects with a cigarette. Parallel universe you (possibly with a goatee) that did the "break thing" but never smoked during a break will want to take a break but has no association with cigarettes or smoking. Their desire for a break remains, maybe with the same strength, but with no desire for a cigarette.
- buu700 6y ago
  On a related note, this just reminded me that back in college, whenever I felt like taking a break from working, I would suggest to my smoker friends that we take a "smoke break" despite that I've never smoked a cigarette in my life. (In hindsight I probably shouldn't have been encouraging a harmful drug addiction, but it was more tongue-in-cheek than anything.)

fortran77 6y ago

> I think many folks here didn't actually read the article On Hacker News? Not likely. Everyone's a well informed 10xer who doesn't just go shooting his mouth off with the first thought that pops into his mind.

lucas_membrane 6y ago
Why would a HN reader read a Psychology Today article? About half the articles in there look like they have to be wrong, and most of the remainder are unconvincing. The HN comments are not always faultless, but they are reliably redolent of authority. I'll always take the straight line path to the dopamine.
- james_s_tayler 6y ago
  I've learned to avoid Psychology Today.

hnick 6y ago

Is there a known opposite? A drug/chemical that teaches us "don't do that"? I assume there is something more than just the pain and memories we get from touching a hot pan, but I've never heard it given a name.