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"Why CS though?" is a weird statement here. Why should the vast majority, or even a sizable fraction, of fields not have a gender or race balance even remotely
by kevingadd 6y ago
"Why CS though?" is a weird statement here.
Why should the vast majority, or even a sizable fraction, of fields not have a gender or race balance even remotely approximating the balance of the general population? Is it not a 'should' but merely 'it's okay if they do'? If the balance was in the other direction and men or white people were being intentionally denied jobs, would that be okay?
Should it be OK for other things to be unbalanced? Should it be OK if 60% of black people can't get houses but only 10% of white people have trouble getting homes? Should it be OK if 90% of asians are turned away from emergency rooms but only 20% of mexicans are?
You can argue that race/gender genetic differences play a role but it's kind of hard to explain away the widespread imbalances here just based off DNA.
- cheesecracker 6y agoThere is no indication that people are being denied entry to certain fields.
- commandlinefan 6y agoNone that I'm aware of. I've never even seen somebody claim to be an otherwise qualified candidate who is unable to enter a field due to demographics.
- kevingadd 6y agoOther than high-profile lawsuits against tech companies accusing them of discrimination against demographic groups? https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/07/google-discrimination-case-first-brought-by-james-damore-can-proceed/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/07/google-discrimination... "Now the plaintiffs can request access to internal Google documents to try to support their allegations, which also include some people being “denied employment because of their actual and perceived conservative political activities and affiliations, and their status as actual or perceived Asian or Caucasian male job applicants,”" There are myriad examples of this sort of allegation from the last decade, it's not hard to find them. They've been discussed here on HN.
- cheesecracker 6y agoOK sorry I meant there is no indication of such denial of entry BEFORE the activists take over. Once they manage to install their quota rules, it is of course not a fair playing field anymore.
- adwn 6y ago> If the balance was in the other direction and men or white people were being intentionally denied jobs, would that be okay? You're implying – and your argument rests on – that right now, women and non-white people are being intentionally denied jobs due to their gender or the color of their skin [1], and that this is a widespread phenomenon [2]. I would really like to see some hard evidence for that claim. [1] As opposed to their qualification or other directly relevant criteria. [2] I'm assuming you mean in the US, or at least in the Western world.
- kevingadd 6y agoThe OP asked "There is an a priori assumption that it should be 50/50 and only then a field is just. Why CS though?" as if CS is the only field that matters here. I responded by asking more broadly about whether imbalance should be acceptable in any field and what kind of imbalance should be acceptable. Why are you immediately assuming that my question is a thin veil over some sort of implied argument? If you believe that racial discrimination in hiring (or otherwise) is made up, you need merely perform a google search to find many reputable articles and papers on the subject. Feel free to educate yourself. https://www.google.com/search?q=race+discrimination+in+hiring https://www.google.com/search?q=race+discrimination+in+hirin...
- devalgo 6y ago~80% of the Nurses in the US are Female, this is no doubt due to discrimination and anti-male bias according to your worldview, correct? 87% of Garbage men in the US are Men, are you fighting for better female representation in the Garbage trade? https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hr/gender-ratio-of-nurses-across-50-states.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hr/gender-ratio-of-nur...
- kevingadd 6y agoNot sure how you leaped from me asking "should it be OK for there to be an imbalance" to this. Why would it be OK? That's the question I asked in the first place.
- cycomanic 6y agoYes and what gender are the doctors? Even though medicine students are 60% female? That's the issue, the prestigious more powerful jobs are largely male dominated, while the "rank and file" who takes orders (or does the dirty work) is largely female. Show me one field (that does rely on the person's ability not looks) where there are more women in the higher ranked positions and more men in the lower ranked positions.