4 ms·

> The dirty secret of video codecs is that you can't make a modern video codec that isn't patent encumbered Why is that?

mekster 6y ago
It would be hard to build a new algorithm without stepping on other established algorithms that are patented.
p_l 6y ago
Pretty much every method involved in high-efficiency video compression has a patent on it, doesn't matter how small part is involved. Now compound this by the fact that a) trying to make an exhaustive patent search to get a verifiable claim that you don't infringe on any patent is very problematic b) known patent pools like MPEG-LA are known not to cover everything. So you can make a reasonable bet that you avoid infringing patents by avoiding patents from MPEG-LA and few other better known groups, but you can't actually guarantee that you're not infringing on any patents. This resolves, sort of, into a game of chicken and depends heavily on whether a lesser known patent holder decides it's worth it to bother executing against you... but even if they don't, unless they come out with a royalty-free license, the possibility of patent is a Damocles' Sword hanging over your codec.
- jariel 6y ago
  "make an exhaustive patent search to get a verifiable claim that you don't infringe on any patent" Is there even such a thing? Isn't the problem that one has to actually go to court to get the answer to this question?
  - dfox 6y ago
    In theory you can do such kind of search. Problem is that doing that is impractically expensive (and at least in some jurisdictions doing that can actually raise your liability in case of patent infringement).
    - jariel 6y ago
      Does such a search indemnify one of liability though, is the big question?
      - p_l 6y ago
        No. In fact, I heard more than once that current advice is to explicitly avoid searching :/
vertex-four 6y ago
Because there are companies with a lot of money in this space which spend all their time trying new things and patenting anything they come up with, even if it doesn't make it into a published codec, basically. The way to get around this is to exist in the EU and avoid providing anything to the US.
jandrese 6y ago
The field is littered with companies holding submarine patents just waiting for that big payday when something using some tiny part that they patented gets popular and deployed to millions of devices so they can surprise everybody with their pricey licensing terms and huge lawsuit.

mekster 6y ago

It would be hard to build a new algorithm without stepping on other established algorithms that are patented.

p_l 6y ago

Pretty much every method involved in high-efficiency video compression has a patent on it, doesn't matter how small part is involved. Now compound this by the fact that a) trying to make an exhaustive patent search to get a verifiable claim that you don't infringe on any patent is very problematic b) known patent pools like MPEG-LA are known not to cover everything. So you can make a reasonable bet that you avoid infringing patents by avoiding patents from MPEG-LA and few other better known groups, but you can't actually guarantee that you're not infringing on any patents. This resolves, sort of, into a game of chicken and depends heavily on whether a lesser known patent holder decides it's worth it to bother executing against you... but even if they don't, unless they come out with a royalty-free license, the possibility of patent is a Damocles' Sword hanging over your codec.

jariel 6y ago
"make an exhaustive patent search to get a verifiable claim that you don't infringe on any patent" Is there even such a thing? Isn't the problem that one has to actually go to court to get the answer to this question?
- dfox 6y ago
  In theory you can do such kind of search. Problem is that doing that is impractically expensive (and at least in some jurisdictions doing that can actually raise your liability in case of patent infringement).
  - jariel 6y ago
    Does such a search indemnify one of liability though, is the big question?
    - p_l 6y ago
      No. In fact, I heard more than once that current advice is to explicitly avoid searching :/

vertex-four 6y ago

Because there are companies with a lot of money in this space which spend all their time trying new things and patenting anything they come up with, even if it doesn't make it into a published codec, basically. The way to get around this is to exist in the EU and avoid providing anything to the US.

jandrese 6y ago

The field is littered with companies holding submarine patents just waiting for that big payday when something using some tiny part that they patented gets popular and deployed to millions of devices so they can surprise everybody with their pricey licensing terms and huge lawsuit.