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> But here is thing: you don't get to decide. You're whole society doesn't get to decide. This is why we have established what is sometimes called a 'rule-base

> But here is thing: you don't get to decide. You're whole society doesn't get to decide. This is why we have established what is sometimes called a 'rule-based international order', so that we can have a world where might makes right doesn't apply anymore. Where the weak get protection and the strong are compelled to act morally and legally. Unfortunately, of course, the rules mostly stay on paper and the world continues to be driven by power and violence. This however doesn't mean that we shouldn't push for a better world and that we shouldn't hold people and nations responsible for their brutality.

LatteLazy 6y ago
This is the core issue: how do you get everyone, every single person on earth, all 7bn to agree not to be dicks, not to want more than a bare subsistence lifestyle, not to engage in violence or coercion and not to invent tech? If we could solve human nature, we could have any ideological system. Communism would work, or anarcho capitalism or whatever. But we can't. We can't get people to cut back enough to avoid a global warming catastropy.
- leto_ii 6y ago
  > how do you get everyone, every single person on earth, all 7bn to agree not to be dicks Unfortunately, as you can imagine, I don't have an answer. I'm actually quite afraid that there's no answer and that we as a species aren't capable of large scale rational and compassionate cooperation. The global warming catastrophe won't wait for us. I'm quite afraid that my life won't end nicely. I don't expect to have a long and peaceful retirement.
  - zozbot234 6y ago
    > we as a species aren't capable of large scale rational and compassionate cooperation. Most likely true, as far as it goes. Ironically enough, the closest thing we get to 'large-scale (even world-scale) rational and compassionate cooperation' is the very "industrial society" mentioned in the OP. You may not like industrial and post-industrial society, but it's not clear that there's any alternative if you want "everyone" to be involved.
zozbot234 6y ago
The modern 'rule-based' international order is more of a limited correction to 'might-makes-right' than an alternative to it. It works really well to the extent that we figure out good 'rules' that actors will genuinely want to enforce. Luckily for us, many such rules are quite possible and they do generally push us towards a better state of the world.

LatteLazy 6y ago

This is the core issue: how do you get everyone, every single person on earth, all 7bn to agree not to be dicks, not to want more than a bare subsistence lifestyle, not to engage in violence or coercion and not to invent tech? If we could solve human nature, we could have any ideological system. Communism would work, or anarcho capitalism or whatever. But we can't. We can't get people to cut back enough to avoid a global warming catastropy.

leto_ii 6y ago
> how do you get everyone, every single person on earth, all 7bn to agree not to be dicks Unfortunately, as you can imagine, I don't have an answer. I'm actually quite afraid that there's no answer and that we as a species aren't capable of large scale rational and compassionate cooperation. The global warming catastrophe won't wait for us. I'm quite afraid that my life won't end nicely. I don't expect to have a long and peaceful retirement.
- zozbot234 6y ago
  > we as a species aren't capable of large scale rational and compassionate cooperation. Most likely true, as far as it goes. Ironically enough, the closest thing we get to 'large-scale (even world-scale) rational and compassionate cooperation' is the very "industrial society" mentioned in the OP. You may not like industrial and post-industrial society, but it's not clear that there's any alternative if you want "everyone" to be involved.

zozbot234 6y ago

The modern 'rule-based' international order is more of a limited correction to 'might-makes-right' than an alternative to it. It works really well to the extent that we figure out good 'rules' that actors will genuinely want to enforce. Luckily for us, many such rules are quite possible and they do generally push us towards a better state of the world.