5 ms·

The balance is probably around 90% the car and 10% the driver. In the years of RB dominance, a subpar driver like Webber almost got the championship. OTOH Alons

The balance is probably around 90% the car and 10% the driver. In the years of RB dominance, a subpar driver like Webber almost got the championship. OTOH Alonso lost a decade in Ferrari and McLaren while being, tied with Hamilton, the best driver in the grid. The 10% of what the driver adds to the mix is what makes Hamilton champion instead of Bottas.

eaurouge 6y ago
The ratio varies - I would say it depends on the car, teammates and team. But ultimately driver skill is what determines who gets to drive for Mercedes, Ferrari etc. So once a pairing has been made, either the drivers are closely matched, or one or both will be changing teams or leaving F1 all together.
- toyg 6y ago
  > once a pairing has been made, either the drivers are closely matched, or one or both will be changing teams That's not always the case. Eddie Irvine spent 4 years as n.2 to Schumacher pretty happily, only changing teams because Jordan offered more money. He was pretty spectacular on good days but nowhere as good as The Michael.
  - eaurouge 6y ago
    Right. The current era is definitely more competitive than past eras. Teams were often cash strapped back then, so sponsorship money trumped driver skill in some teams. Also Ferrari was very much Schumacher’s team. Irvine was his supporting driver much more than a true teammate, unlike what we have these days in most teams, including at Mercedes and Red Bull.
    - faichai 6y ago
      Teams are still cash strapped!
  - paublyrne 6y ago
    > Eddie Irvine spent 4 years as n.2 to Schumacher pretty happily, only changing teams because Jordan offered more money I think you mean Jaguar. He moved from Jordan to Ferrari.
    - toyg 6y ago
      Yes, sorry.
- rezeroed 6y ago
  "ultimately driver skill is what determines who gets to drive for Mercedes" - not what happened with Bottas. Doubt that's what happened with Sainz.
  - rezeroed 6y ago
    You know something no one else does?
dyyni 6y ago
Also, a good driver might not be a good team member which might put them in a disadvantage. Räikkönen was considered one of if not the fastest on the grid during his best years but iirc wasn't very good as a team member in the car's development phase which hampered his and his car's performance
- otherme123 6y ago
  But always against his teammate. You can put whatever driver you name in a Mercedes from 2014 until today, and he will end at least in second place in the championship. I cannot imagine a single driver, not even Maldonado, that would end worst than 2nd except due to incredible bad luck with the car reliability. Verstappen is an incredible good driver that probably deserves to win multi-championships. But as it is now, Bottas is closer to that achievement than him.
- ethbro 6y ago
  Nothing will ever be as great as Räikkönen's press conferences, though. "Kimi!!! How did you feel the car was today?!" "Car was good." walks off
- ezconnect 6y ago
  One of Räikkönens great skill is giving feedback to the engineer that's why he is still driving and good at developing cars.
wiz21c 6y ago
Dunno if it's a valid comparison, but my kid races indoor karting. He's average level, that means he's within 1.5% of the best in race conditions (i.e. on a 40 seconds lap, he's about than 0.7 seconds behind the best on average). And given the time it took to reach that, I'd say that being a competitive pilot may be just 10% of the victory, but those 10% are super tough to reach.
- bborud 6y ago
  I think you are pointing to something very important. The car and team get you 90% of the way. But the last 10% is almost 100% up to the driver.
  - mrslave 6y ago
    Reminds me of a Yogi Berra quote: > Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical.
- emerongi 6y ago
  I've been doing a bit of karting lately and the difference between a 58s and a 59s lap is crazy. Super hard to shave that second off, but it's also so obvious that the guy doing 58s laps is way faster. Last year there was a hobbyist race on my local track and the person who won it was a guy who mainly practices at home on his computer. I imagine a gokart simulation is close enough to the real deal that training on it actually can help a lot. You can get much more fine-grained feedback on how well you're taking certain corners etc. One thing that trips me up is understanding the kart - my local ones have somewhat poor acceleration, so it seems it's not actually best to take the corners as sharp as possible and try to accelerate out of the corner, but instead try to maintain as much speed as possible going into the corner, even if you end up on a bad line. This would be easy to test in a simulation, but I just have to go by gut feeling.
  - wiz21c 6y ago
    The 1st rule we've learned is : you look all over the place, not just the kart in front of you. The 2nd rule we've learned is : no skidding, never. That's really hard to do. But look at top pilots, they don't skid. The 3d rule is : you do your best time on every single lap (super good pilots do almost the same time on most of their laps, within 0.3 sec range; it's hard to believe they do it, but they do !). 4th rule : figure out the best trajectory. According to my kid's teacher it's a question of 10 centimeters here or there (good luck figuring that out !). Strangely, passing a car is the last thing you learn. But in retrospect,it's normal : most of the time you run after the one in front of you. The opportunities to pass another pilot are rare (most of the time you're much faster so the blue flags forces them to let you pass). As a dad, I'd say : find a good teacher, it makes a big difference.
pmontra 6y ago
The driver matters more when the cars are close in performance. Any driver on the grid would have been either World Champion or runner up in a Ferrari in 2002 and 2004, Red Bull 2011 and 2013, Mercedes in 2014-2016 and maybe 2019. The only opponent would be the team mate. The car matters nearly zero in the fight with a mate, that is only about driving skill: how to be fast and when, when to try to overtake and when not, etc. Most F1 drivers are very fast but not all of them are as wise in their driving as they should be. Some of them regularly end a race and score points, others regularly crash or throw away good results. (And some drivers are there because they are backed by sponsors with the money needed by the teams they drive for.)

eaurouge 6y ago

The ratio varies - I would say it depends on the car, teammates and team. But ultimately driver skill is what determines who gets to drive for Mercedes, Ferrari etc. So once a pairing has been made, either the drivers are closely matched, or one or both will be changing teams or leaving F1 all together.

toyg 6y ago
> once a pairing has been made, either the drivers are closely matched, or one or both will be changing teams That's not always the case. Eddie Irvine spent 4 years as n.2 to Schumacher pretty happily, only changing teams because Jordan offered more money. He was pretty spectacular on good days but nowhere as good as The Michael.
- eaurouge 6y ago
  Right. The current era is definitely more competitive than past eras. Teams were often cash strapped back then, so sponsorship money trumped driver skill in some teams. Also Ferrari was very much Schumacher’s team. Irvine was his supporting driver much more than a true teammate, unlike what we have these days in most teams, including at Mercedes and Red Bull.
  - faichai 6y ago
    Teams are still cash strapped!
- paublyrne 6y ago
  > Eddie Irvine spent 4 years as n.2 to Schumacher pretty happily, only changing teams because Jordan offered more money I think you mean Jaguar. He moved from Jordan to Ferrari.
  - toyg 6y ago
    Yes, sorry.
rezeroed 6y ago
"ultimately driver skill is what determines who gets to drive for Mercedes" - not what happened with Bottas. Doubt that's what happened with Sainz.
- rezeroed 6y ago
  You know something no one else does?

dyyni 6y ago

Also, a good driver might not be a good team member which might put them in a disadvantage. Räikkönen was considered one of if not the fastest on the grid during his best years but iirc wasn't very good as a team member in the car's development phase which hampered his and his car's performance

otherme123 6y ago
But always against his teammate. You can put whatever driver you name in a Mercedes from 2014 until today, and he will end at least in second place in the championship. I cannot imagine a single driver, not even Maldonado, that would end worst than 2nd except due to incredible bad luck with the car reliability. Verstappen is an incredible good driver that probably deserves to win multi-championships. But as it is now, Bottas is closer to that achievement than him.
ethbro 6y ago
Nothing will ever be as great as Räikkönen's press conferences, though. "Kimi!!! How did you feel the car was today?!" "Car was good." walks off
ezconnect 6y ago
One of Räikkönens great skill is giving feedback to the engineer that's why he is still driving and good at developing cars.

wiz21c 6y ago

Dunno if it's a valid comparison, but my kid races indoor karting. He's average level, that means he's within 1.5% of the best in race conditions (i.e. on a 40 seconds lap, he's about than 0.7 seconds behind the best on average). And given the time it took to reach that, I'd say that being a competitive pilot may be just 10% of the victory, but those 10% are super tough to reach.

bborud 6y ago
I think you are pointing to something very important. The car and team get you 90% of the way. But the last 10% is almost 100% up to the driver.
- mrslave 6y ago
  Reminds me of a Yogi Berra quote: > Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical.
emerongi 6y ago
I've been doing a bit of karting lately and the difference between a 58s and a 59s lap is crazy. Super hard to shave that second off, but it's also so obvious that the guy doing 58s laps is way faster. Last year there was a hobbyist race on my local track and the person who won it was a guy who mainly practices at home on his computer. I imagine a gokart simulation is close enough to the real deal that training on it actually can help a lot. You can get much more fine-grained feedback on how well you're taking certain corners etc. One thing that trips me up is understanding the kart - my local ones have somewhat poor acceleration, so it seems it's not actually best to take the corners as sharp as possible and try to accelerate out of the corner, but instead try to maintain as much speed as possible going into the corner, even if you end up on a bad line. This would be easy to test in a simulation, but I just have to go by gut feeling.
- wiz21c 6y ago
  The 1st rule we've learned is : you look all over the place, not just the kart in front of you. The 2nd rule we've learned is : no skidding, never. That's really hard to do. But look at top pilots, they don't skid. The 3d rule is : you do your best time on every single lap (super good pilots do almost the same time on most of their laps, within 0.3 sec range; it's hard to believe they do it, but they do !). 4th rule : figure out the best trajectory. According to my kid's teacher it's a question of 10 centimeters here or there (good luck figuring that out !). Strangely, passing a car is the last thing you learn. But in retrospect,it's normal : most of the time you run after the one in front of you. The opportunities to pass another pilot are rare (most of the time you're much faster so the blue flags forces them to let you pass). As a dad, I'd say : find a good teacher, it makes a big difference.

pmontra 6y ago

The driver matters more when the cars are close in performance. Any driver on the grid would have been either World Champion or runner up in a Ferrari in 2002 and 2004, Red Bull 2011 and 2013, Mercedes in 2014-2016 and maybe 2019. The only opponent would be the team mate. The car matters nearly zero in the fight with a mate, that is only about driving skill: how to be fast and when, when to try to overtake and when not, etc. Most F1 drivers are very fast but not all of them are as wise in their driving as they should be. Some of them regularly end a race and score points, others regularly crash or throw away good results. (And some drivers are there because they are backed by sponsors with the money needed by the teams they drive for.)