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I'm not even in the US but I feel like I have to respond (I'm in Canada so in a sense the US situation is impacting me as well). There are large groups who don

by YZF 6y ago

I'm not even in the US but I feel like I have to respond (I'm in Canada so in a sense the US situation is impacting me as well). There are large groups who don't believe in science, that believe the dinosaurs never existed, some even think the world is flat. Among other beliefs. And yes, those people will not be convinced by any amount of data or evidence. I guess that's life. And yet, there's is no doubt in my mind that the right thing to do is to take measures to control the spread of the virus. We're not talking about "stay locked down", we're talking about practicing common sense measures that bring the epidemic under control, like wear masks, physical distancing, wash your hands. The counter-arguments that we're hearing from some circles about how maybe masks infringe on people's rights are just beyond belief. Right now the US has 130k deaths with maybe 5%-10% of the population having had the disease, it's not just about deaths though, how many people have been very seriously ill, how many will suffer some consequences for the rest of their lives? We don't know what longer term risks are, we don't even know if getting the disease makes you immune. Even without knowing that the social and economic costs of just letting this spread uncontrollably are huge. Now those people who are "risk takers" aren't just risking themselves getting sick. Their family can get sick. Their friends can get sick. Their friend's family can get sick. Do you want to be the guy who got your friend's father sick and he dies? I'm sorry but there's no excuse. Anyhow, we don't have to convince the risk takers, we can force them to behave the way that society expects them to behave. We don't say hey let them rob a bank, the risk is low, they're just risk takers... And it's really not the US, it's the world, we have over 500k deaths worldwide (that we know of), and we're only getting started.

rpiguy 6y ago
No the risk takers are taking all of that into account and dismissing it as acceptable. It is a difference in values. You are arguing as if presented with same data that you have there is only one obvious and rational conclusion, but that is simply not the case. If someone has different values they can come to a very different conclusion. Take Sweden for example, many people view it as a success and the higher than the rest of the EU death rate perfectly acceptable. Life isn’t life to some if you can’t live it. The data isn’t black and white. Of course you are comfortable forcing people to behave, Canada is fairly totalitarian in policing of speech, etc. Would never fly in the US.
- YZF 6y ago
  Canada isn't totalitarian in policing of speech or anything else. The US is perfectly happy to force people to behave, look at the rate of imprisonment vs. many other countries. Look at how peaceful protests are being handled in the US vs. other countries. Let's just apply your argument to speeding. If I'm a risk taker why can't I drive 100MPH in a residential neighbourhood? Heck, life isn't worth living if I can't get that thrill. Tell that story to the US cop that pulls you over. Naturally the others you are putting in danger, their lives are worth nothin'. You're right, it's all about values.
- somewhereoutth 6y ago
  It is the difference between people who care about others and people who do not. Civilised society rightly considers the latter a menace and deals with them accordingly. Sweden is now a pariah state in the EU, its borders have been closed by its neighbors.
- blaser-waffle 6y ago
  > Canada is fairly totalitarian in policing of speech, etc. Would never fly in the US. I'm an American living in Canada and that's just straight up incorrect. The level of discourse is effectively the same as in the US.

by YZF 6y ago

rpiguy 6y ago

No the risk takers are taking all of that into account and dismissing it as acceptable. It is a difference in values. You are arguing as if presented with same data that you have there is only one obvious and rational conclusion, but that is simply not the case. If someone has different values they can come to a very different conclusion. Take Sweden for example, many people view it as a success and the higher than the rest of the EU death rate perfectly acceptable. Life isn’t life to some if you can’t live it. The data isn’t black and white. Of course you are comfortable forcing people to behave, Canada is fairly totalitarian in policing of speech, etc. Would never fly in the US.

YZF 6y ago
Canada isn't totalitarian in policing of speech or anything else. The US is perfectly happy to force people to behave, look at the rate of imprisonment vs. many other countries. Look at how peaceful protests are being handled in the US vs. other countries. Let's just apply your argument to speeding. If I'm a risk taker why can't I drive 100MPH in a residential neighbourhood? Heck, life isn't worth living if I can't get that thrill. Tell that story to the US cop that pulls you over. Naturally the others you are putting in danger, their lives are worth nothin'. You're right, it's all about values.
somewhereoutth 6y ago
It is the difference between people who care about others and people who do not. Civilised society rightly considers the latter a menace and deals with them accordingly. Sweden is now a pariah state in the EU, its borders have been closed by its neighbors.
blaser-waffle 6y ago
> Canada is fairly totalitarian in policing of speech, etc. Would never fly in the US. I'm an American living in Canada and that's just straight up incorrect. The level of discourse is effectively the same as in the US.