4 ms·

Rhetoric may well find its place as an esteemed study once again.

war1025 6y ago
This guy is apparently "alt-right", though I don't know exactly what that means these days, but someone mentioned him here on HN the other day which led me down the rabbit hole. I thought this video [1] was interesting and it introduced me to the difference between rhetoric and dialectic. Rhetoric is using emotion to convince people. Dialectic is using reason. He points out that you need to know how to read your audience to choose the correct angle of argument. Some people get hung up on, for example, always persuading through facts (dialectic), when what they really need to do is reach for emotion (rhetoric). Anyway, I thought it was an interesting intro to the topic. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHpalC3WaXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHpalC3WaXY
- mturilin 6y ago
  Alt-right is technically a white supremacy neo-nazi movement. However, most of the time this label is used by woke people to discredit anyone who doesn’t share their views. Would you be able to share what led you to think why Yascha Mounk is alt-right?
- tottenhm 6y ago
  > This guy is apparently "alt-right"... Yeah, no. I mean, I don't know this guy from Bob, but the above has neither citation nor argument, and everything I've seen disagrees with that assessment. Skim the list of the board of advisors... https://www.persuasion.community/p/our-board https://www.persuasion.community/p/our-board Several names pop out - and not because they're alt-right / reactionaries / populist right-wingers. Some bios: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Applebaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Applebaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fukuyama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fukuyama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Kasparov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Kasparov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheri_Berman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheri_Berman Again, I don't have any personal knowledge here, but it's interesting to consider, eg, this bit from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yascha_Mounk#Political_positions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yascha_Mounk#Political_positio... > Mounk stated that he had changed his position on nationalism. He initially considered it a relic of the past that must be overcome, but he now advocates an "inclusive nationalism" to head off the threat of aggressive nationalism. On the German television newscast Tagesthemen, he stated that Germany is on a "historically unique experiment, namely to transform a mono-ethnic and monocultural democracy into a multi-ethnic one." I suppose words like "nationalism" and "mono-ethnic" might appear in an alt-right missive, but IMHO the above doesn't sound anything like an alt-right perspective.
  - war1025 6y ago
    Sorry bad wording on my part. The guy from the linked video. Reading it again I really butchered the message.
    - tottenhm 6y ago
      Oooh, I see how I misinterpreted! Thank you for clarifying. Cheers.

This guy is apparently "alt-right", though I don't know exactly what that means these days, but someone mentioned him here on HN the other day which led me down the rabbit hole. I thought this video [1] was interesting and it introduced me to the difference between rhetoric and dialectic. Rhetoric is using emotion to convince people. Dialectic is using reason. He points out that you need to know how to read your audience to choose the correct angle of argument. Some people get hung up on, for example, always persuading through facts (dialectic), when what they really need to do is reach for emotion (rhetoric). Anyway, I thought it was an interesting intro to the topic. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHpalC3WaXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHpalC3WaXY

mturilin 6y ago
Alt-right is technically a white supremacy neo-nazi movement. However, most of the time this label is used by woke people to discredit anyone who doesn’t share their views. Would you be able to share what led you to think why Yascha Mounk is alt-right?
tottenhm 6y ago
> This guy is apparently "alt-right"... Yeah, no. I mean, I don't know this guy from Bob, but the above has neither citation nor argument, and everything I've seen disagrees with that assessment. Skim the list of the board of advisors... https://www.persuasion.community/p/our-board https://www.persuasion.community/p/our-board Several names pop out - and not because they're alt-right / reactionaries / populist right-wingers. Some bios: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Applebaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Applebaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fukuyama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fukuyama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Kasparov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Kasparov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheri_Berman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheri_Berman Again, I don't have any personal knowledge here, but it's interesting to consider, eg, this bit from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yascha_Mounk#Political_positions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yascha_Mounk#Political_positio... > Mounk stated that he had changed his position on nationalism. He initially considered it a relic of the past that must be overcome, but he now advocates an "inclusive nationalism" to head off the threat of aggressive nationalism. On the German television newscast Tagesthemen, he stated that Germany is on a "historically unique experiment, namely to transform a mono-ethnic and monocultural democracy into a multi-ethnic one." I suppose words like "nationalism" and "mono-ethnic" might appear in an alt-right missive, but IMHO the above doesn't sound anything like an alt-right perspective.
- war1025 6y ago
  Sorry bad wording on my part. The guy from the linked video. Reading it again I really butchered the message.
  - tottenhm 6y ago
    Oooh, I see how I misinterpreted! Thank you for clarifying. Cheers.